Tornado

I take your point. My concern is that people continually stating online that the NVR event will likely be cancelled means people will hear that uncertainty, cancel pre-bookings and make other plans. If things do go ahead as planned, that's money the railway will have lost out on, and every penny counts at the moment.

As I understand it there is a plan in place to ensure that next weekend's steamings will go ahead. Some cautious optimism wouldn't hurt the coffers!

Edit: Well... that's unfortunate.

 

Personally I think the Tornado Board “slating” is getting quite tedious now. The situation being experienced by those involved with the A1SLT is not uncommon in the movement we are involved with, and indeed this movement always has its highs and lows.

Everyone involved with the A1 rode the crest of a wave for years on end, with the huge amounts of success that it brought to both heritage railways and mainline operations. Several owning groups out there would love to be in that position, and during that time there was plenty of support, which a number of other groups can only dream of. Non of you should have been remotely silly enough to think that the trust would not come down from that wave crest, and exprience some troubling times.

Yes this overhaul has been a little protracted, but what did people honestly expect. The A1 has been stepped up a level in technology and it was never going to be plain sailing. Some of the issues have been outside of the trusts control, some of them could have been dealt with better perhaps. But the one thing for certain is this slating the group are taking on here is unnecessary, unhelpful, and damaging. People on here watching this, seeing the drivel going on and on, might well be those looking to have Tornado visit their railway for an event, bringing the Trust some nice hire fees, they may decide to look elsewhere.

And that’s all before we start on the damage some of the above talk could do to the NVR….

 

Excellent post Harry!

 

Firstly, No one is blaming the NVR, we all know their plight, I would hope that there is indeed a plan B, involving another engine as a substitute, if needed,
The fault lies with those with in the A1 Trust who allowed the bookings, when the loco was not clearly anywhere near ready first-time round, and it's been compounded by delay and cancelation since, If I were in the NVR's shoes, I would have another engine, such as 92 sqn if its home , and availible for driver experience and only have Tornado in light steam, assuming its passed all the inspectors tests, and been passed, I don't think there will be enought time to run shakedown trials, before letting people who might not know the engine loose with it, even experienced crews will need to find the best way with it,

 

92 Squadron is still out of action awaiting replacement superheater elements

 

It did, but it was all jolly tight! Which shows that miracles are possible, and may still be here too. Fingers crossed, particularly for those at NVR.

 

Who are you to judge? How many years have you supported the A1 Trust, how much of your hard earned cash have you contributed and how much time have you spent working on the loco and the tours or at presentations and other fund raising events?

If like many of us it’s over 20 years, several thousand pounds and many weeks then fine. If not then you have no idea how the Trust has changed for the worse over the last 4 years, it’s hard won reputation now laying in tatters.

Sadly any damage to the NVR will again be down to the broken promises of the A1 Trust. We expect there will be an announcement in the next few days …..

 

I appreciate what you are saying but the A1 Trust is not like any other loco owning group where you pay a membership and respond to appeals every now and again. I put in a four figure sum and became a covenanter when the P2 was launched, in return I expected and got regular updates and on what was going on, including the occasional set backs and that’s what happened during all the high years . I’m sure it all started to go wrong when Mark Allatt left and we got rumours rather than facts as the directors came and went.
The overhaul has been a classic case of hope over reality but I think a lot of us would have stayed with them if they had been honest and kept everyone informed. There are still lots of unanswered questions about the boilers, why suddenly a third one was needed and why it didn’t fit. In the absence of any information from the Trust, I’ve formed my own opinion on that which may or may not be true.
In all this, collateral damage has already affected the NVR twice and I sincerely hope that all goes well this time but we still don’t know where we are and that’s unforgivable.
You are right that it’s now time to call a halt to further discussion as it won’t achieve anything.

 

Your response suggests that you are part of the problem. It suggests to me you feel anyone who has not directly contributed should not be allowed an opinion or view point, nor does it consider what any “outsider” may have knowledge of.

Personally my involvement in Tornado/A1SLT is what I suspect you would call minimal, some would call it average. I’ve travelled on A1SLT tours 4/5 times, and been behind Tornado on the mainline 8 times in total. Onenahd occasion I have given support to any of the onboard fund raisers for the loco (As I do on any trip I travel on). Outside of this I’ve had the pleasure of working on the A1 a couple of times at the SVR, and I have had good friendships with a couple of those formerly involved.

In terms of what I see from a personal level, really stems from my involvement as a Trustee with 2857. I’ve seen our group go through the highs and lows of owning/supporting a loco, and I can well sympathise with the current predicament the A1 finds itself in. I can well understand the fact that you cannot please everyone, and that at times some Trustees/Board members can cause damaging problems for the group. I can well relate to some of the issues presented to the A1. I personally opt to put my financial and physical contributions in to 2857, but that does not mean I can’t relate to other groups, and as such I do feel able to take an opinion with the A1.

What I cannot relate to, is public slating of the group. Unfortunately I see that as more damaging in the long run than is good for any group. Yes it may be that the A1 trust is going through rough times, I don’t doubt it. But the good times will come back, and when they do, those who stuck by during the s**t times will be the ones better off.

Even if I was to consider supporting a mainline group like the A1, attitudes like yours whereby an “outsider” is shunned for having an opinion would soon prevent me from joining that group. If I’ve learned nothing else from being involved with 28, those who look in from outside, often have a better view of what’s needed, than those looking out from the inside.

 

I don’t agree John that the A1 trust is different to other groups. If you put money in to Clan Line for example and the circumstances were as you describe above, you’d be still forming the same opinions.

For me, Tornado was over used in its previous ticket. It got an absolute hammering to get it on as many trips, to as many heritage railways as possible, and so on. I think it’s overhaul was always going to be lengthy, but they’ve faced some significant trials on the way.

Ill be glad to see it back, if only to put an end to this lot on here having a whinge!

 

You will never stop the whingers on here Harry,its part of their lives unfortunately!

 

Agreeing with Harry here, the A1ST bashing is quite repetitive. We know thats something changed over the last few years. Let's wait till Wednesday or Thursday (as it would probably be the latest for Tornado to at least leave the GCR) so to see what happens then and whether any update will follow unless one is released prior. If this is an OPEN PUBLIC FORUM, expect people regardless whether they are inside or outside of a group or a society and regardless of how much money or volunteering etc they put in should to be open to an opinion and nobody should be shunned in doing so.

 

No one can disagree with your last paragraph

 

On the other hand: no-one is compelling you to read this thread, @2857Harry .

 

But he did and he’s entitled to express an opinion, parts of which I agree with and parts I don’t. It’s what a forum is all about or it just becomes an echo chamber.

 

Yup. But maybe there are one or two on here who, if they were playing Just A Minute would be fine on without hesitation or deviation, not so fine on repetition. Just because something is said a hundred times doesn't make it any more valid than saying it once.

 

Sad to report this just in by email …..

“Following a hopeful start to last week, with a warming fire lit, it has become apparent that we no longer have the time required to confidently meet our August bank holiday heritage line commitments and operate reliably.

We had hoped to expedite the running in process by having a boiler inspector visit the engine at the end of last week. However, despite provisional agreement, it did not prove possible. The relevant inspections are now booked for this week. The engine has today been in steam, with pressure raised to the full 250psi.

In effect, with the necessity to cool the engine before travel, this left no time for meaningful mileage accumulation before moving to the Nene Valley Railway (NVR), leaving no contingency time to address any potential minor issues that may arise. This risked last minute disappointment for the NVR and its visitors; something we did not wish to occur.

Therefore, in conjunction with NVR, difficult decisions have been made to prioritise Tornado’s running in closer to our engineering resources in Loughborough and move our Nene Valley Railway visit to an extended period in October. In so doing, we are able to recover 4 working days into the programme that would have been blocked for transport and thereby expedite the locomotives return to the main line.

We are sorry to disappoint those who had planned on seeing Tornado over the bank holiday weekend but hope that they will join us at the NVR this October half term”.

Sorry for the repetition, but with some folk there’s none so blind as those that cannot see. My heart goes out to the NVR yet again.

 

NVR visit postponed until October.

Edit

Sheff beat me to it.