Swanage Railway General Discussion

Can’t remember now where on FB I saw it, but apparently the 2+1 seated MK1 has left for Jeremy Hopkins’s mainline stock !

Shame to see the railway slowly loosing stock, wouldn’t be totally surprised if the 117 leaves leaving only the 121 in a few years once we have the TC Set back

 

Ian, I said many platforms. Steam Railway, Trackside and Heritage Magazine, You Tube etc. Steve

 

And of course SLL's own website news pages.

 

Let's hope the SR got a good price for the MK1.
But it will need work plus central locking doors fitted.

The fate of 117 may also depend on Dorset metro service funding for Wareham to Corfe future train services and bus subsides?.

Thought some SR members are forming a group to buy it?

 

I would have thought with central government stopping any funding for the Restoring your Railways scheme and talk of power upgrade to achieve the aim of extra trains between Wareham and Brockenhurst it must be dead in the water. When councils are getting spending in areas to try to meet their legal obligations on social care it has to be a no go.

Based on the Green Signals interview, if LSL have purchased the Mk1 it will get a full rebuild from the bottom up as that is apparently what they have done on the rest.

 

There were reports in newspapers 3 weeks ago the Dorset metro service would progress, but looking back was only to a feasibility study, so back to buses for public transport!. The SR are finding uses for the 117 DMU, but its future is not good?
Interesting LSL could give the Mk1 a full rebuild for mainline tour use (and the SR could get some cash!)

 

The 117 doesn’t fit the Swanage Railway image. Can it be sold?

 

Not whilst there is the remote possibility of trains from Wareham to Corfe or Swanage restarting, which is why the 117 was refurbished? If not then a possibility for the SR management to consider?

 

Here is the twist or bust scenario, sell the 117 as mainline certified or hold on to it in the hope that a Wareham service becomes a viability, whilst the vehicle(s) slowly rot and their value decreases

 

Given those alternatives, and given the loss-making experience of running the service thus far - what is realistically likely to change in the next few years that would suddenly make the service viable?

Looking at the state of public finances - both national and local - I can't see the sudden appearance of a new source of public funds to subsidise trains on a short branch line in a relatively affluent part of the country along a route well served by buses already receiving a public subsidy ...

Tom

 

Yes that makes sense though I think the More Bus 40 and 50 are run commercially. They are both hourly and a cheap option would be to increase frequency with public money to make them more attractive.

 

More Bus already receives considerable subsidy from both the local councils and via the Government - the services aren't commercial in that sense. As an obvious point, routes 40 and 50 are included in the Government-backed £2 bus fare scheme: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/2-bus-fare-cap#south-west

As far as I can see, Dorset Council collect all the fares taken on More Bus services, and in exchange have a contract with the company to pay them to run certain services. So to all intents and purposes it is a public sector service, in which the provision is contracted out for a fixed fee. It certainly isn't a commercial operation in which More Bus will sink or swim according to their own profitability.

In that model, any subsidy from Dorset Council for a Swanage rail service looks a non-starter to me. The council has a transport budget to provide subsidised public transport across the whole county; and providing buses is both the most flexible and most cost-effective way of doing so. Any internal council analysis of looking at the cost per passenger mile of their various subsidised services would surely show that subsidising the rail service was poor value for money.

Tom

 

This raises three questions in my mind.

The first is whether it is such a poor fit given that services apparently did run from the Castle Cary line. That leads to a second question about which railways are precisely accurate in their portrayal of pre-closure operation. And, if it can be superseded by the 33+TC combination, is it really sustainable to rely on that other train to provide that shoulder capacity in the long term?

 

I have no special knowledge, but if you are looking at pre-closure operation's, isnt a DMU more suitable than a 4TC? I am sure more DMUs ran on the line than TCs. And from a passenger point of view, DMUs are far more popular. If you are in a TC you might as well be in an ordinary Mk1 diesel-hauled train. Whereas a DMU is different and more attractive.

 

I share your views on popularity. Historically, the key point is that the Swanage branch was Southern, so the dominant form of multiple unit was the DEMU.

 

I think DMU's only ever visited on excursions such as ramblers. As @35B said branch trains were DEMU's mainly "Hampshire" variants but sometimes "Hastings" it seems from pictures of the time.
Through trains to London in 1967 were 3TC and 4TC mix with 33 power of course.

 

Think "Thumper" class 205 DEMUs only ran on the Swanage branch for a couple of years before closure. (or maybe 1967 to 1972? ref
https://www.eorailway.co.uk/the-railway/rolling-stock/205205-history/

I expect the SR management looked at all options for the Wareham line and at the time decided on the class 117 (which had run on the line as specials), with Moguls and Mk1s updated later? In hindsight, with the mainline upgrade problems, maybe not the right choice?

The 4TC/33 also ran on the line, but guess was harder to upgrade to a mainline standard (although LU have done it)?

If the 117 was sold would SR get a good price as there is not a great need for mainline approved 117s?
LSL has a mainline approved 121 as a "chairman's" DMU!

 

Tom. That isn't strictly correct. Bus companies are commercial entities free to run what they want where they want and answerable to shareholders. The main More Bus 40 and 50 are run commercially though some Councils provide (or did?) support for some evening and Sunday journeys which the company can't make any money on. Well over 75% of all bus routes are run commercially. Likewise whether to participate in the £2 maximum fare scheme is a decision for each company. Those who do participate get some Govt money to compensate as overall the money lost isn't enough for the passenger growth. Its the contracted (subsidised routes) routes where the Councils keep the revenue as they determine what operates and when. The situation in London or in areas where a Franchise applies is different. Don

 

Routes 40 and 50 are in the £2 scheme though; ergo, they are subsidised routes running in direct competition (ie along the same axis) as the railway. Which was my original point: I can’t see any form of public subsidy for the railway when alternative forms of public transport along that route is already subsidised.

Tom

 

Without wishing to prolong this it’s the fare which is subsidised through a National scheme not the route. But in any case the money for any improved rail service simply isn’t going to be available. Rail services already eat many £billions a year and at some stage this will have to be reduced partly by the elimination of duplication. This is one of the aims of GBR if it ever happens.