Tornado

Quite a few people after reading about the cancellation, will be asking themselves, is there something else that has come to light, as a result of the 60 mph testing? was the 21 September cast in stone? If so again, it's asking for yet more problems, the engine hasn't even been load tested on the mainline, and the trust are advertising a Railtour that the engine is not certain to haul, As it turns out it's not even ready , Keep making stupid mistakes and people will think those in charge are a bunch of stupid fools, who could not organise a drink in a brewery It would have been so much easier had the trust's officers said nothing, promised nothing, and kept quiet, instead they have really not just gone and put their size nines in it, but have repeatedly made a laughing stock of themselves.

 

I’m not having a go at the Trust - I am a part of the Trust and have been for over 30 years and over that time - along with many hundreds of other have given the Trust many tens of thousand of hard earned pounds and hours of my time.

What I am pointing out is poor project management, diabolical leadership and a total failure of the trustees to hold themselves to account. And of course dreadful comms to all stakeholders.

 

You’ve done a fanastic job there of taking half a sentence and basing all your thoughts on that….

So let’s now take the rest of that which goes in to the details…..

“but it is clear that despite best efforts it would likely use up almost all of our contingency for getting the engine tested and ready.

Moreover, Tornado has been fitted with the European Train Control System (ETCS) digital signalling equipment. Part of the work for this has involved a change to the braking system, including a new warning ‘sunflower’ for use under conventional signalling arrangements, and electronic brake valves that apply the brakes to prevent such situations as passing a red signal. A new ‘black box’ data recorder has also been installed. During testing, some problems became apparent, resolution of which would also be too close to the 21st for comfort. For example, the data recorder will not be ready until the 18th September”

Ah now that explains why they are cancelling soemthing 3 weeks away.

 

Thanks for bringing some facts to the party. Whilst there is question marks over whether the tour should have existed in the first place (amongst many others since cancelled), the facts are there in this latest statement if people bother to look - rather than conjuring more conspiracy theories, which for me is spoiling this thread.
People may not like what they are reading in statements, they may not like how the current situation is being managed - but please stick to the facts as we know them and don't manufacture what we don't know.

 

The statement also says they have agreed mainline test runs for end of September / beginning of October. Another statement of truth is that it can not haul any mainline trips until these are passed - another reason to cancel the S&C trip.

 

Your actually a part of it?!
It's well established that The Trust is formed just of its trustees and 'memberships' aren't available to the public - all third parties can do is donate money to the Trust for it to use as it sees fit.

To be a part of The Trust must therefore mean you are a Trustee, and as such you are in a position along with your fellow Trustees to make changes if you are all of a similar feeling.

 

So the firebar is going to use up all the contingency, but the resolution of the black box "would also be too close to the 21st for comfort".
So which is the cause of the delay?
If the black box, say so, don't just list it in a number of other items, and if not, why mention it? And if it was the black box when did they know it was playing up? Unless it failed on the same run as the firebar, then when did it fail?
Either way, it doesn't look like there was much contingency.

There is more detail there than I first read, but the timing is unclear at best.

 

Okay, then why push ticket sales for the 21st just a few days (less than a week) ago, if you haven't actually sorted out a date for the main line test run before that deadline?

I see that as akin to taking people’s money under false pretences (as has happened numerous times over the last 2 years). As an aside, I wonder what all the abortive mailshots and the booking/refunding of tickets has cost? For me, this feels likes the coup-de-grace for the Trust’s credibility.

 

For me it feels like all of you having a whinge on here having ground the axe enough. Ultimately Tornado has a huge, huge following. There is a great excitement for its return, and as much as it may have been prolonged, it will still command huge amounts of attention and attraction.

Very much looking forward to it myself, something we are lucky to have in steam and should enjoy.

 

So you have no problem with their business methods? I also assume you haven’t invested 5 figure sums with them?

 

I presume you have never been a covenantor then nor watched the video of the visit to Meiningen? We all (used to) feel that we are (were) part of a family. The trustees treated covenantors as shareholders and were open and honest with us. No longer the case sadly.

 

And you are Mark Allatt.

Is the reward still £5?

 

I always have felt the real success of The Trust was it's fund raising ability and the way it managed to engage with people to donate money to their project.

 

Sorry but I don’t see how you can say that you’re not having a go at the trust when you only pop up anytime there is news of the loco and only then to deride the trust.
@I.Cooper is correct- you are not a part of the trust. You’re a contributor to the trust. You said it yourself a while back that the trust only consists of a self electing board.

 

My desire to travel main line with Tornado has fallen markedly. And if I do, it will be very unlikely to be on the basis of the A1SLT's advertising.

That is entirely the result of their repeated goalpost shifting and ethically questionable advertising.

That Tornado has many fans, and that many of them will ignore just about anything in their hero worship, is not a reason to support the behaviour of A1SLT.

 

if there was something to praise I’d be the first to do it.

Yes, probably unlike you, I’m “only” a contributor of over 30 years standing and a huge fan of both locomotives. Just like with a football team it doesn’t stop me having a view on the competency of the players, management and owners.

 

Fortunately for the Trust and for anyone who wants Tornado to pull trains, running railtours is not the only source of income. Besides covenanters making monthly donations, there are also umpteen "clubs" for various parts of the P2 in exchange for unclear benefits, and those must have eased the current cash flow situation, even if the money is only borrowed from the P2 project.

The continually missed deadlines instill the opposite of confidence. There is a German proverb: If he tells lies, don't believe him even if he speaks the truth.
Edit corrected "when" to "if".

 

Said nothing, promised nothing, kept quiet ??? Sounds a bit like 10A (and their approach, which I agree with, gets regularly slagged off) But I agree with you Martin, it would have been better than the debacle that we are experiencing now.
The trust are not doing themselves any favours acting as they are, it can't be too long now before somebody suggests incompetence.

 

Worse language than "incompetence" is going through my mind, and if I'd purchased for the 21st in response to the recent advertising and also incurred other costs, I'd be considering my Section 75 rights, the terms of my discussion with the credit card company, and demanding repayment of those consequential costs. I would also be considering escalation through the media if unsuccessful.

They could do worse than follow the 10A model, but unlike 10A the A1SLT is a 1 trick pony. If they don't have Tornado, they have nothing.

 

The point i'm making is this, Any overhaul can hit problems, even more so if your not in direct control of it, Ie, your contracting it out, and then fitting a new untested bit of electronic kit, the rule of what can go wrong, will go wrong comes into play, and you have to be wise to it, and don't make promises, and certainly don't start booking it to appear anywhere until its ready and tested, and if your talking main line, have a plan B, possibly another engine, if yours isn't ready, and instead of having to cancel, and offer refunds, just said, the tour will go ahead but with another loco,
I wish that the trust had parnered up with LSL, in the same way that the SNG Group have, the overhaul would have been better controlled from the start, and they have the skilled workforce , and the chance of another loco from the LSL stable had Tornado not been ready, I'm sure offering blue peter might have been an option, and been a popular one.