GCR Black 5 No 45491

An 8F boiler is, actually a bigger diameter than a Class 5 , normal boiler plate rather than nickel steel used on the Class 5s.
The lengths of the taper barrel section were identical, but, as LMS 2968 says, the parallel barrel was 1 foot shorter on the 8Fs.

 

That was, I believe, the plan for 44901, I vaguely recall another import was mooted, but it never happened?

 

I was really wondering if there was a spare boiler to be had, rather than another loco.

The boiler drawings are very interesting and the differences look to be very subtle for the most part. I wouldn't have thought it would be too difficult to make a hybrid 8F firebox and Class 5-like barrel, any sight differences (and we seem to be talking small fractions of an inch, so probably barely [if at all] visible to the naked eye) would be hidden by the cladding. And as we're frequently reminded, virtually no two Black 5 boilers seem to be the same anyway! Presumably the same was true of the 8Fs, with them coming from so many different builders. It would be interesting to know if some variations were closer than others.

 

The boiler is being prepared for it's hydraulic test ..."Very soon". All the backhead openings are sealed and all the tubes expanded.

 

This boiler is still outside the shed. There has been more cladding put onto the boiler but I'm not sure if the hydraulic test has been done yet.

 

Must be quite a long time since the GCR hasn't had an operational home based black 5?

 

About 4 and a half months

 

The hydraulic test has not been done as there is apparently an "issue" with paperwork and some boilerwork may need redoing.....

 

Going back a while, but . . .
8F boilers were of normal boiler steel while Black Five boilers were of high tensile steel; this allowed thinner plates and so reduced weight and is the reason for the slight differences in dimensions. However, all 8Fs used a 21 element superheater and all but twelve, none surviving, had sloping throatplates and domes. Black Five boilers could have 21, 24 or 28 elements, vertical or sloping throatplates and dome or smokebox regulators, plus two positions for the top feed.

8F boilers were fully interchangeable except for the first twelve, 8000-8011 (8003 excepted) while there are three different types of boilers for the preserved Fives.

 

There is still work continuing with the boiler outside the shed at Lbro. The chassis looks to be complete but the piston valves are still to be installed.

 

The boiler is still being worked on but the new front tubeplate is yet to be installed.

 

I assume Phil that there were irreparable issues with the tube plate since it was in-situ for the hydraulic test?

 

ouch......

 

I believe it was that the material of the tubeplate could not be verified so needed replacement....one of the problems of such a long period of restoration work?

 

This is the latest picture of the boiler outside the locomotive shed. It is still without its new front tube plate but some work has been done on the cladding.

 

We have a new front tube plate in the boiler...but it is not yet rivetted.

 

On the subject of LMS boilers, in Roger's biography of Riddles he mentions an episode where a number of the then new 2-10-0 austerity locos were stopped due to suspected failure of stays. In the event this was an inspection technique fault but he then talks about a similar experience with Stanier 5's where these , in Stanier's absence, had to be withdrawn from service by Riddles due to failure of side stays and bulging of the inner firebox. This is attributed to a "manufacturing fault" in the steel stays being used. Is there any other published information on this as it must have caused quite a stir at the time?

 

I seem to recall that 45379's firebox crown had previously suffered from 'quilting' - whether it was this that caused her withdrawal in July 1965, I don't know.

 

There tended to be a mixture of different materials for stays, often within the same firebox, of copper, steel and Monel metal. A.F. Cook (Raising Steam on the LMS) doesn't mention the problem in relation to Black Five's Class 3B boiler though, which is where I'd expect to find it.

 

Do we know if the tube plate on 45491 needed to be removed for repeat-access to the boiler or is the 'new' tube-plate a replacement from elsewhere or the same one being reinserted? (I only ask this since the tube plate in the image doesn't look to be a new one?)