Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Thanks Tom. That’s on a par with the longer NYMR duties. I asked because some people consider that to be too long. I wonder how these compare with other railways?

 

Mainline connections do have benefits but they're not always as huge as we'd expect.
The NYMR for example, obviously benefits from Tourist traffic to whitby but at the same time its had a negative impact on the timetable that can be run on the heritage line itself because all services need to match up to the available paths on NwR

 

I guess you mean roughly the area with the paler tarmac in this view?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/E...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyMS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

At the very southern end, there is a gate that allows road vehicle access to the railway for the Bluebell and - I believe - Network Rail. We wouldn't want to lose that, which straight away starts putting constraints on the site.

More generally - if you had a larger site, what would you do? The current signalling only allows a single train in section, and there is only one passenger platform in any case. Both of those could change with money and space - but to what end? The maximum service frequency on the line is governed by the longest section, which is Sheffield Park - Horsted Keynes. "Double the time taken and add a few minutes for signal box work" gives you a 35 minute frequency, 40 being more relaxed - which just happens to be how long it takes to run from Kingscote to East Grinstead and back including a run round. So in practical terms, having one engine in steam north of Kingscote doesn't limit service frequency. Adding another passenger platform and appropriate signalling there would allow five rather than four trains to circulate, but with no benefit on frequency, you'd just have trains sat for long periods at East Grinstead waiting for a path back.

If the land were available and money no object, there might be more imaginative things to do. The long term plan floats the need for a large exhibits museum - maybe that could be the location, with (occasional) rail access via the loop. One of the loco department complaints about SteamWorks is that it is the right thing in the wrong place. Maybe a purpose-built large exhibits museum at East Grinstead would be the answer. But you are probably into EuroMillions territory and it might only become possible if there was some major upheaval in the whole area. (Sainsbury's moves to out of town location; whole area set aside for new housing; small parcel of land to Bluebell as part of planning gain - that sort of thing). But it is all massively speculative.

Tom

 

Well obviously, some of the trains do Sheffield Park to East Grinstead, while others do East Grinstead to Ardingly, with an additional passing loop at West Hoathly to improve operational flexbility until the full double track EG-HK comes into use

 

I'd rather see any massive inflow of cash to be spent on a branch line from HK and as far along the Ardingly branch as would be possible. With a small country station and a run round loop there.

Plus a visitor accessible viewing area in the triangle between the branch line and the HK to SP line. To watch and phot the trains coming up from SP, and the 'parallel' departures of a branch line train and one heading to SP.

Not entirely sure how access to the viewing area would be arranged . . . . . . . . I think the old Channel Tunnel, tunnelling machine may be a teensy weensy bit too big!

 

I think the East Grinstead site is just too constrained at the north end, which is where you really want the room, in order to build a better, more welcoming station (and the limit is the adjacent road and the corner of Sainsburys itself). Many years ago the talk was of an SR building like Bromley North, or an art-deco style, though cost will clearly be a factor. Ideally we would want our passengers to have a better experience than the current temporary ticket cabin, buffet car and so on.

In terms of wider space, it's hard to see many options, the only one that stands out is the builders merchants next to Kingscote, if this site was ever to become available it would give a good plot adjacent to the line for the large objects museum Tom mentions.

 

I don't think Bromley North has ever figured before in any possible options. Certainly the Chessington branch stations, due to their modular design have, and it's why I originally proposed it, way back around AD2000, because it was so potentially adaptable.
For context, I was also asked to look at a possible adaptation of a Myres design, just to see if it was possible, but despite some fairly radical reimagining, it just was not going to work. I still have the original sketches at hand, along with the artwork for the Streamline Moderne concept, if anyone's interested.

 

Glad i'm not the only one who remembers the art-deco proposal.

 

Wasn't there talk some years ago about building a replica roundhouse (á la Horsham Loco.) in the triangle? Storage / display of the smaller locos was proposed, I seem to remember.
Pat

 

You’re mixing two concepts there I think.

One was a roundhouse proposed for the top car park at Sheffield Park (where the coach park is). Scuppered I think due to the need (1) to have a coach park (!) (2) the poor nature of the ground (it’s mostly built up from ash, I believe) and (3) a roundhouse is expensive to construct relative to the length of storage created.

It would be very LBSCR, though, which I suspect was why it ever gets talked about.

The other, more recent, concept was to construct a chord linking the Sheffield Park and Ardingly lines, creating a turning triangle. That was mentioned a lot during the excavation of the tip, but I think the curvature and also a difference in levels between the two lines ruled it out. Too tight and to much earthworks needed.

Better use of that area for passengers is a good idea IMHO, if you could arrange access. You could probably do quite a nice little observation area and wildlife garden if you thought a bit creatively. I suspect it is on the big list of ideas that aren’t bad, but just never get to the top of the priority list.

Tom

 

If i'm right that the Britannia means the very small, green shunting engine the Howards and and used themselves at their Britannia Works, Bedford, I think more use would be good for it. Some regular use - every two months? - is a good thing: otherwise you find it's not reliably a runner when you could use it.

Would it be a complication that the engine is petrol not diesel? I'm not sure that you can get the fuel for it without paying duty at the rates for motor spirit or if Tractor Vaporising Oil is any possibility.

And simply I would like to see it about if possible out and about. Ideally running on TVO - I find the smell of its exhaust evocative.

 

I used to come to East Grinstead by train via Thameslink (change at East Croydon) from north of London, however in recent years Thameslink has become so unreliable with short notice cancelled trains due to crew shortages and not working overtime (understandable) so not enough drivers. I drive now as it takes about the same length of time and is significantly cheaper.

 

If you had any pictures to hand I'm sure we'd be interested !

 

Slight tangent to the current discussion but one from the 2015 Giants of Steam gala that I've always been fond of but never got round to processing until now:

 

Here's the 2 general views I've got ready access to, the rest, like block plans and building layouts are buried very deeply in a chest full of god knows what, out in the office!
Of course what really put the kybosh on this was NR's insistence of access, which snuffed out a significant amount of the available space, but it gives you an idea of the original concept.

 

Lovely shot. I guess we'll next see the Q in SR livery as No. 541. Good to ring the changes, especially where there is only one survivor of a class which wore several different liveries, but running as 30541, the Q evoked the feel of railtours in Sussex in early 1960s when Qs often featured, notably on what remained of the lines to Midhurst. They also featured on the Oxted line network, incuding at least one "sulky service" workng over the Bluebell.

 

I think that's the first time I've seen the first illustration, but definitely remember seeing the 2nd one of the entrance. Even when I first saw it as a kid, I felt it was a bit of an ambitious design.

 

I think we'd got as far as agreeing that the rendered finish was a bit high maintenance, and that the elevations, at least on the road side, would be better in brick, with stone horizontals as a contrast.

 

... and a graffiti/tag magnet.