S&D Railway Trust

Whiston is indeed an Austerity, based at Foxfield
Thanks for that, I didn't know that's how Pecketts exhausted the steam brake

 

This is good information from everybody thank you

 

An update on the Trust website says 53808’s boiler has been de-tubed for a condition survey, and design work is proceeding for the new tender tank. It also says they “hope to announce very soon that we have come to an agreement with the West Somerset Railway to fulfil their financial commitment with the overhaul.”

https://www.sdrt.org/progress-with-53808-and-its-overhaul/

 

The mess that the S&DRT found themselves in was entirely of the WSR's making, and general opinion is that the Trust have made the best of a very bad job. What do you think they could have done any better?

 

My view is this, yes, the Trust has tried to make the best they can, of a very bad situation, but they have now, moved on, the payments are the very last tie they have to the organisation that treated them so abysmally, 53808 has a home where it can be overhauled, and a railway that wants them there, unlike some on the WSR, but its all water under the bridge, the future now is what counts, The Trust would be IMHO, not wise to accept the WSR Plc.'s word on anything, but to prepare and act with the half expectation of at some point the structured payments not being forthcoming, this will mean having an appeal to the membership, and beyond to in effect match what those payments were to be, just to ensure that they don't get let down, or the overhaul stalls, As I understand it, the boiler is thought to not require extensive work,, but the motion and chassis is very tired, and will need a lot of attention,

 

I presume @brennan refers to the deficiencies in the lease that allowed arguments to develop about it's validity. They are highly technical, their interpretation is contentious, and were only relevant if the WSR plc had chosen to set aside the spirit of previous partnership.

The Trust have made a good fist of a bad situation; my fervent hope is that the commitments to pay the balance are honoured and all parties can move on without further conflict.

 

I would be quite happy to have 53808 on display at Bath Green Park Station for a number of years to publicise the SDRT (say 5 years). I would be equally happy to have it at Shillingstone.

 

As they have most of the money and the main income source of the trust is the locomotives, why are you so obsessed with not just getting on with the overhaul, which is only going to get more expensive and (probably less achievable due to the passing of nostalgic donors) with time?

 

Because I think myself that having the loco 53808 back in steam is only one part of the SDRT. For much of the SDRT’s existence 53808 hasn’t been in steam hauling trains.

You could equally argue the case that Stepney on the Bluebell is so much a part of the Bluebell Line that it should always continuously be overhauled and rebuilt so to be in steam and running and hauling trains.

I think the IOWSR has a similar mentality to O2 ‘Calbourne’ ie get it running in steam and hauling trains. The only retirement or respite it has had is due to the cost of expensive repairs. I’ve never got my head round this. Put it on display like Caerphilly Castle and The Dean Goods.

The SDRT was established years ago to record and preserve the memory of the S&D. It was incidental and subsequent that it bought 53808 as a wreck from the scrapyard. And it isn’t the only member of the class to survive.

 

....assuming that BGP does not catch fire again !

 

A fair point IMHO - and I speak as a former S&DRT member for about 35-odd years.

IIRC for many years there were certainly some members who seemed to regard "getting down and dirty" with the restoration of 88 and other motive power or rolling-stock as their 'raison d'etre', to which the 'museum' side of Trust activities came a poor second (and modelling hardly got a look in at all). That's not to denigrate what they did and achieved in any way, simply symptomatic of the way that many railway groups seem to start with one key objective and then morph into something else over time....

 

I suspect that if your raison d’être is “to record and preserve the memory of the S&D” then buying and subsequently restoring and operating an example of a locomotive that is absolutely synonymous with the line was probably rather more than just “incidental”!

Tom

 

So long as that focus is in balance with the wider purposes regarding the S&D. I will also defer to @RailWest on this, given his contribution to those wider objectives, credited in the latest Backtrack.

 

The problem as I see it with stuffing and mounting it is twofold. First there is the question of where to do that and how to ensure that it does not deteriorate. Second, if not now (when most of the money is in place and the rest can be raised from the ageing enthusiast base) then when? Wait 5 years and it may not be possible and it will certainly be more expensive. Wait 10 years and it will never happen. And you might want to shorten both of those timeframes.

 

I can see where @21B is coming from. It is very much the current approach of SDRT Chairman Roger Hardingham as I understand it.

I think there ought to be a wider debate within the SDRT on where it now positions itself and the strategic review awaited from the SDRT board after leaving Washford where it had a site and base and a museum for decades.

The SDRT is now facing significant issues as to whether the WSR PLC will pay the instalments towards the overhaul of 53808 due to the WSR PLC’s precarious financial situation.

Anyway, I’ve made my views I hope clear. My thoughts go out to the SDRT board since late 2019 and especially since the Notice to Quit Washford in February 2020. And all the SDRT volunteers who worked so hard to remove everything from Washford.

Still awaiting suggestions for the title of the book!

 

That's undoubtedly a risk, but I'd suggest a lower risk than that the WSR plc would have defaulted ca. 2030 in the alternative universe in which no deal was done and they maintained the liability to overhaul the loco. And even if they do default some years from now, the S&DRT will at least have got some of the money owed between now and then. In the same situation without the deal done, they would simply have been another in a line of unsecured creditors.

So it is no good to just keep saying "but the worst might happen" unless you also admit "and if it does, we are still in a better position than we were before". The deal is about de-risking - for both parties.

As for "let's display it in non-working condition somewhere: where exactly? Most heritage railway's aren't overflowing with covered accommodation sufficient for all the out-of-use assets they have, without taking on more; even fewer have under cover storage suitable for public access to see the contents. (And frankly - if you don't restore it but just put it into store without public access, how is that meeting any kind of charitable objective around educational value?) On most railways, out-of-use locos become nobody's baby and rarely get well looked after.

I'm with @21B on that score: the best way to ensure the long-term survival of the loco is for it to be restored to use somewhere. The S&DRT is in a comparatively strong position to negotiate terms with somebody to that end on account of the loco coming with a significant dowry.

Tom

 

It is always a difficult decision, if you're owed a significant sum from an organisation or company that is struggling financially, do you try and get all the money now and risk getting nothing because they go into administration, or do you look for a phased payment knowing you will get something if not all. In this case I think the Trust have earned more Kudos in the preservation world by taking the latter, at least they look like they've taken a sensible pragmatic solution. If they had caused WSR to collapse I don't think they would have come out in such a good light.

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As I understand it there is quite a good amount of money already in the kitty for the overhaul of 53808, so there's no reason why it shouldn't start to be worked on as soon as terms are agreed I also understand the boiler is expected to be in good shape, because its used water thats either had the RO treatment, or is extreemly pure, but the chassis is in need of a lot of work, but thats something the working members aided by others with in the MHR can do as soon as space can be freed up, most likely once 499 is re wheeled, that will mean 53808's frames can be put out of the way there, when 499 moves into the shed to be finished off,
So why send the chassis off, when you can do it in situ, and use your own members, for one thing, it means you are not paying for work you can do yourself, and the people who are rebuilding 499, can advise those working on 53808, as its likily to be simular work , I would expect that there will be a lot of crossover between the engineering staff any way.

 

Hi Tom @Jamessquared I don’t know what you mean by a “dowry” for 53808?

The SDRT does have some funds, but last time I spoke to our Treasurer of the SDRT his view was they should go to restoration of the SDRT coaches. The SDRT is entirely relying on the WSR PLC honouring it’s contractual commitment to pay for all or most of the overhaul of 53808. Which agreement ends in 2030.

This is exactly the same conundrum that JJP faced in 2019. He hasn’t solved anything in the last 5 years in respect of this significant issue.

The SDRT has not yet confirmed any payment of the £78,000 for the assets at Washford by the WSRHT. And the precise details are as yet unknown. It is possible and arguable that payment went (if it did) via the WSR PLC as Sub Landlord of Washford to the SDRT being Sub sub lessee; Somerset Council being the head lessee. Somerset County Counsil own the freehold, and lease to the WSR PLC, and WSR sub leased Washford to the SDRT.

No “Pines Express” or any emails to members of the SDRT has confirmed that this £78,000 has been received for Washford. We only have part of this from the spring 2024 business plan posted online by the WSRHT.