35011 General Steam Navigation

The trouble is this to rebuild 35011 back into an original as built condition is going to take a very long time, and deep pockets, I'm estimating a 20 year timespan, and its going to need somewhere that can accomodate the group, for that period of time, few lines now would be prepared to do that, unless the group are already tied to that railway and have been so for many years Its a pity the S&C were unable to do that, but also the group has to show that their plans are achievable and progress is being made, and there is a plan in place with key stages, that are being worked towards,

 

Sensible decision by the S&CR, though. There are few lines (if any!) that can make sensible use of a Merchant Navy pacific in either original or rebuilt form, and the S&CR is definitely not one of them! Better, and probably fairer all round, to use the space it would occupy to house something relevant to their needs

 

My own, bitter experience is that of two large engines that arrived at a railway with which I was involved both took up valuable storage, sucked in resources and departed elsewhere with little or no benefit. The vacated space is of more use to the S &C

 

I would add that my last two visits to the S&CR were because I also wanted to see up close how 35011 was getting along. I admit however that people like me won't be in the majority.

I'm remaining positive and optimistic regarding this one accepting that I may not live to see completion - barring a lottery win of course

It might be realistic to list this engine amongst the 'new build' category with the like's of 2999 & 1014 due to the significance and extend of the work required. 35011 currently lacks a crank axle so last time I was there, resembled an 0-4-0. I believe the plan is to remove all three cylinders and split/dismantle the frames. Definitely not for the feint of heart or shallow of pockets!

 

Sorry to be a killjoy but IMHO this is a no-hoper. To restore 'as is' minimum 1 million quid probably nearer 3 to restore 'as built'. With an income of just 10k p.a. it doesn't add up. If another running MN is needed they'd be better joining forces with 35010 and combining the best bits of both as, at present, one loco is lacking a crank axle and the other an outside cylinder. I'm surprised at Leaky Finders giving up valuable space for 35011 as, if the groups income is only 10k p.a., L F won't be able to do much for that. Just my 2p worth - I'm sure others will disagree!
Ray.

 

I don't know if that was true, but if so perhaps a degree of naivety on both parties about the likely outcome of that bid. Not least the capacity of what is a very small organisation to scale up to deliver what would likely be seven figure grant, with all the governance that would inevitably be required from the HLF in doing so.

Indeed, and hence my earlier comment about needing to step up at least ten fold in funding terms, probably rather more. I went back through all the accounts of the "General Steam Navigation CIC" on Companies House and they seemed to be drifting around the £10k per annum mark in income as far back as the accounts went - as far as I could see by selling shares. There are just over 100 shareholders in total, collectively holding 119,170 of the 1,000,000 shares available. I don't always agree with @Gav106 but I think he is right in terms of funding, and particularly so if the current chosen route is to contract to a commercial entity to carry out the work. I suspect a figure of at least £100k - £150k per year will be needed to demonstrate meaningful progress on this. They currently have about £60k in the bank, so you could do something with that - but once work to that value has been done, you wonder at what point Leaky Finder's patience would run out if they see cash continuing to come in at the current rate.

Tom

 

Once upon a time, I was good friends with the fellow who was the original purchaser of GSN.
Even 40 years ago, the idea of restoring 21C11 to it's original condition seemed like putting a man on Mars.
Plus cà change...

 

Never say never in railway preservation. I’ve seen a few locos return to steam that people said would never run again. Just needs the right person to come along and put his/her hand in their pocket or a group to come along and take it on.

 

Well, I wasn't going to say as much but on a scale of one to ten this must be a two. However, if the project group want to spend their time on it that's their business. The heritage "market" will determine whether it goes forward if sufficient people put their hands in their pockets. I can't really think why but, each to their own.

With regard to the move to Leaky Finders, that may inspire some confidence that will generate more income but ten grand a year will barely pay for the paint and the compliance trail. From Leaky's viewpoint, when I was in business we used to refer to this sort of arrangement as a "hospital job". When some money had been accumulated work to that value was executed , the project was then left until the piggy bank filled again. It wasn't unusual for these jobs to be abandoned as enthusiasm waned.

 

That's not quite fair.
The home was offered on the basis of the HLF grant, which included construction of a new building for 35011 to be restored inside. At the end, the railway got the building.
Nobody thinks 35011 can be restored outside, and neither the railway nor 35011 can self-fund the building.
Without the building, the win-win plan falls apart for both 35011 and the railway (which can use the space better).
This was always a possible outcome, but it doesn't mean it wasn't worth a try...

 

I am inclined to agree that this project is a no-hoper.

To succeed they would need to sell the idea to a lot more supporters; but they are in a vicious circle. Few are contributing funds, therefore the prospects are very poor, therefore few are inclined to contribute. Furthermore it has very narrow niche appeal and it's hard to see how that could be widened. What does it offer that we don't already have between original (more or less) condition light pacifics and rebuilt Merchant Navies?

Personally, as I have said before, I would prefer them to adopt Bulleid's original preference to use spur gears rather than chains, but I am perhaps in a even narrower niche in that respect. Even if that were the plan I would be disinclined to contribute to the project unless its prospects were very much brighter.

 

This strikes me as quite a sensible approach for both groups, 35010 (I understand) has had quite a lot of parts accumulated whilst the owning group work on their Black 5.

Chris

 

It's only a sensible approach if one of the groups decides they don't want to see 'their' engine working ever again. I don't know any of the people involved in either group, but the possibility seems remote unless one of them runs out of money and is forced to sell.

Anyway I just popped by to mention that 35029 needs a replacement RH cylinder as well, so maybe some economies of scale as far as 35010 is concerned... ;-)

 

Admittedly its a few years since I have had direct involvement in an HLF bid, but unless things have changed radically in the intervening period, they have plenty of Officers there who provide a great deal of help and advice to potential applicants and are equally forthcoming in giving you an idea very early in the process of what exactly they are looking for you to hit in terms of their required sweet spots and a pretty good idea of what your realistic chances are.