WCME & CME 2025

I would think/hope the promoter is becoming less relaxed, particularly if more tours fall away

 

As I've said before travelling with steam on the mainline is fast becoming a luxury that many can't remotely afford. We had a leaflet through the door yesterday for a Saphos Barrow to York trip https://saphostrains.com/journey/the-white-rose-30-04-2025/ (steam Warrington-York and return) cheapest price £220 a head (or £270 a head if you want a guaranteed 2 person table, or £345 a head per person at a ‘superior‘ private guaranteed window table for two), now we are lucky enough to have a household income a fair distance north of the national average, but nearly £500 for a trip to York, no chance.

I wonder how much the market is presently being sustained by those old enough to remember steam and benefiting from things like final salary pension schemes that my generation and younger can only dream of.

 

I think back around 2010-2015 WCME's sold well because there were enough enthusiasts who were prepared to do repeat itineraries endlessly. The 5 trips for 4 ( or whatever that years combination was) seemed very popular.
But really unless you are into the Shap and S & C performance so much of it is in the dark at this time of year. I am sure those that are just having a day out (especially if they have done a WCME before) may plump for a trip later in the year. Also it has not helped that it leaves earlier, (yes only about 45 mins currently but does keep creeping back towards midnight). The extra Northern S & C service means you get very little time in Carlisle compared to earlier times, and even if you are in dining a break of a decent duration is nice. Unless you are on a night tube or night bus route, that slightly earlier start either makes it a worrying journey to make the train or forces you into a nights hotel. That is of course before the issue there has always been of an arrival time at some of the points that provide limited connections.
Although other issues have stopped me stewarding any of these I did work out that staying in East Croydon (where there is an all night service) to be sure of being there for departure I would need to get the 05:10 to have one more option in case TL cancelled it.
Two of my steward friends who are on tomorrow are having to take a different route due to RRB's between Royston and Hitchin. They have only one train that connects and it means getting up around 03:00 to get the 04:45 from Whittlesford Parkway. The last train back is 23:58 off Liverpool St so even a reasonably short delay will potentially leave them stuck in London.
Soon it really will not be worth going to bed.

 

And of course if you're a steward on an LSL tour it's a totally different experience. You're paid, rather than being a volunteer, and you all go down on the ECS the day before and get put up by the company in a nearby hotel for two nights, coming back on the ECS the day after. Unless of course it's a tour from the Crewe region, in which case none of that is necessary. It just goes to show the difference in business models. I'm not arguing in favour of one or the other, I just find the comparison interesting.

 

And that of course will contribute to as portion of the pricing structure difference between the two operators.

 

Is it any wonder then that LSL tours seem to be so much more expensive than other operators.

Peter

 

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for a tour, but only if I feel I'm getting my money's worth.
I've done many CMEs, and did a Sophos Lakelander tour with steam Crewe-Shap-Carlisle-Cumbrian Coast-Crewe, which I thought was a very decent amount of steam for the price charged.
However, I'm not willing to pay the high prices asked for much shorter steam legs (e.g. just Taunton-Kingswear-Taunton). I notice the Lakelanders are now only steam from Preston rather than Crewe these days as well.

For the non-enthusiasts who are just there for the posh-nosh, they probably don't care, but sadly the only company really offering something that fulfils my need at the moment (no coffins, decent length steam legs) is Vintage Trains!

 

Maybe the enthusiast fraternity are saving their pennies for Bahamas over Shap and Ais Gill in March with Vintage Trains

 

Correct, having done a number of RTC WCME's over the years, my £ went to Vintage Trains this year. With price increases meaning I can only afford to do 1 or 2 trips a year now, when I commit that amount of £ I choose carefully.
Also, having personally invested a significant (for me) sum of money in the VT set up, if they are running the sort of trip as an enthusiast I want to travel on, I would be crazy not to support them.
Whilst not wanting to get into the 'box on the back' debate*, it is pointless travelling over Shap and the S&C when you know the diesel will have no choice but to intervene. So having weighed up RTC v VT as a direct choice, there was only ever going to be one winner.

*Incidentally I am considering one of the Rail 200 trips with RTC in the autumn in full knowledge there will be a diesel involved, but for me the interest would be route rather than performance, so I am not fussed.

 

There's another market that might be expanded and that is shorter steam trips, such as the Shakespeare Expresses. The marathons are too much for sickly oldies like me but we are still a big part of the market. And more importantly of course for "normal people" who want a day out from their home city that's short enough and cheap enough to take the kids or do repeat trips
The Crewe-Chester- Wolverhampton triangle might be another ( I recall the thrill of the steam return from Crewe behind Lizzie). The British non-Pullman perhaps.
And so on for other cities or accessible starting points where capacity can be found.

 

Whether it’s of particular interest to anyone out for the WCME today, a near clean rake of Blue and Grey set with the exception of a couple of maroon mk2e’s and kitchen car, believe it’s 11 coaches once Tangmere comes on with standard class at the front

Hoping for the good one today!

 

Unable to proceed north of Lancaster, police being called to the TPE service in the station which in turn is holding up a freight and us

EDIT: Now on the move, looks as if we’re able to get infront of the delayed TPE

 

Oh whoopee!!

 

“Limited Availability” at tables for 4 in First and Pullman classes, according to the Vintage Trains website. Other classes sold out.

 

TH Railway Videos, post: ...."the WCME today, a near clean rake of Blue and Grey set with the exception of a couple of maroon mk2e’s and kitchen car"

Nice

 

Arrival into Carlisle after a decent run up Shap, loco now turning with support coach for the return to Preston

 

34067 descends the bank as she leaves Carlisle with the return journey this afternoon.

https://flic.kr/p/2qJnFc2

 

SRBoB class No. 34067 'Tangmere' heads the first 'Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express' 0f 2025 through a chilly Greenholme towards Shap and on to Carlisle with Mick Rawling driving and Rob Russell on the shovel



With Wild Boar Fell forming the backdrop SRBoB class No. 34067 'Tangmere' tops Aisgill summit with the return leg of the 'Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express' with Mick Rawling driving and Rob Russell on the shovel

 

34067 seen from just below Shap Summit footbridge, Shap Summit and on the return charging through Kirkby Stephen Station.