Kent & East Sussex Railway

Agreed. I don't burden people with my custom if I'm not wanted.

 

Who said you weren't wanted? You expect something from a venue, and it supplies it in a way that means you might have to look for yourself. There's no big notice on the site saying "Nanstallon can **** off", is there? That's simply you deciding that if they don't do something the way you want them to, then you're not going there. Fact is, everyone is welcome.

 

Sorry but the sense of some people's self entitlement is strong with this one. I assume people don't know how to ask on Facebook/other social media or ring up the railway and ask then if there is no online roster that can be viewed from the website. It has been explained before that some railways don't release a roster in advance due to volunteer resource and potential last minute failures. In the case of the KESR its normally either the Standard 4 or the Austerities that will very likely be out on virtually all running days kettle wise until when the USA or the 42xx is in service. And the 14, 20 or DMU on diesel turns. Everyone is welcome as Fireline stated but there is times that YOU'LL have to do the research and finding out for yourselves.

 

For any organisation, I always telephone if I can't immediately find on-line what I am looking for, but apparently younger people have difficulty telephoning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgklk3p70yo#

 

These are all very fine engines.

 

The trouble is that there are now too many different ways to communicate remotely.

For several thousand years there were only letters. If they were very urgent you might perhaps be able to send them by carrier pigeon. Then came the telegraph. Then (was that the next in sequence) the Universal Postal Union, so you could send a letter to almost anywhere in the world and the person there could send one back. Then came the telephone. Then email. Then the World Wide Web and "mobile" phones (which were originally strictly just "mobile" isasmuch as they were installed in vehicles, but should now more properly to be called "handheld"). Then a flood of proprietary networks such as Facebook and WhatsApp, most of which (AFAIK) work only if you and your correspondent subscribe to the same one.

If you're an organisation such as a heritage railway, whichever channel you spend time using to advertise your offerings, someone will complain that you're not using their preferred one.

 

I don't think there are as many different, varied and independent social media networks as you are suggesting. Firstly, the vast majority of organisations that want to use social media to convey news and updates will use Facebook. Twitter has too severe a character limit to be able to communicate meaningful detail in many ways. Plus many people are leavpeople wing Twitter because Elon and the other people on it are getting a bit too right wing for many people's liking. Plus, it is easy to link a Facebook account with an Instagram account, meaning your Instagram posts are automatically duplicated on your Facebook account. (It doesn't really work the other way round because on Facebook you can post simple text updates whereas Instagram only lets you post pictures or videos). WhatsApp isn't really a social network, it's more a more modern and more flexible version of texting - you use it as an individual communicating with people or groups of people you know - an organisation would never use it to communicate to its customers.

The way social media networks have evolved and the way people use them, the best networks to use for an update such as "These are the locos we are planning to run this weekend" or "The plan for this weekend has had to change from A to B because of XYZ", will be Facebook with possible duplication on Instagram (or vice versa).

 

I actually prefer phoning places to find out information as I can get it there and then so I can make a decision, but it turns out a lot of places now won’t answer the phone - it’s a case of ‘if’ someone is in the office when you ring, you may get an answer, but it’s not a priority. I cannot say if this is the case at the KESR as I’ve not tried.

What I do agree on however is the ease of communicating a planned loco roster. The MPD will presumably usually have an idea which loco they plan to send out on any given day as there will be planned maintenance, washouts etc. So why not schedule a post for a Friday afternoon saying ‘This weekend’s Steam services are planned to be worked by Swiftsure. Please note that this may change at short notice’. Should there be a change, it’s not a long job for someone at the MPD to WhatsApp someone with Social Media access to say ‘Swiftsure failed, Std 4 out instead’ and the SM person to put a post on saying ‘Unfortunately our planned loco for today has developed a fault, so it will be replaced by…’

Many railways manage it. The Embsay railway for example will often post on Instagram first thing with a photo of the engine lit up and ready to go. Again, a 2 min job for someone.

 

I find the choice of words which I have highlighted in the post above rather curious.
If I am to visit a heritage railway or gallery or museum or castle or any other attraction I expect their website to give me information about cost, opening hours/timetable, details of cafe/restaurant facilities etc. as part of that I like to have an indication of which locomotive or unit I am likely to experience.
It is rare for me to have a day to myself and when I have the opportunity I don’t think it’s a sense of self entitlement to make an informed decision about where to spend my time and money. The more information a place offers, the more likely I am to head there and spend my dosh.

 

Yes, there should be information about what the planned exhibits are, (which there usually is), but to compare a railway with a stately home is unfair, moving lumps of victorian iron can and do fail at short notice.

I don't ever recall constable's "the Hay Wain" failing FTR, I don't ever recall the Tower of London not having someone qualified to drive the Crown Jewels...

I've also been to plenty of exhibitions where objects have had to be pulled for whatever reason, operas where the performers have had to be replaced with no notice and gigs where the support band have played the whole gig (and they were terrible...).

Put simply, you are asking a volunteer to take time out to do something that will not assist the vast majority of visitors and will only attract criticism if it's changed for circumstances beyond their control. (And if it' a paid member of staff that's IMO, a poor use of their time for the same metric.)

Anything more than a generic statement of "we plan to run.x, but may not be able to" is (other than in case of a specially flagged visitor) all that can be asked for...

 

I have noted the above conversation. I am a Trustee of the KESR. We are a small heritage railway with a dedicated but small staff and volunteer cadre , who do their best to provide a good service to all our customers, whether general public or enthusiasts, whose needs are not always the same.

I note, and understand, that it would be helpful to some to understand which item of motive power is due to be used on any particular day. As will be appreciated, that can change from the moment a loco returns from service the previous day or is lit up. However, there is always a plan, even if it changes.

Without making any promises, I will see what can be done.

 

I refer my honourable colleague to the dictum of Tyson, M in the field of plans...

 

As I've said before other railways manage to put something out with Caveats including some smaller than KESR, they don't seem to raise the same amounts of comments about what is running.k

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This will be my last post on this topic. With respect, you’re demolishing a straw man.
1. I’m not demanding that anyone does anything for me, I’m simply saying that it would be helpful to know for example that the plan is DMU or steam.
2. Art galleries do actually tell punters when a given painting is not on display because it’s on loan to another gallery for example.
3. Of course I’ve been to plays where an understudy has been covering for an indisposed actor and guess what, I didn’t complain or throw a hissy fit. I get it that humans and locos will have availability issues.
4. I understand that in your mind it’s an unfair comparison, but last Summer I was deciding whether to visit Hever Castle or KESR on a particular day. Both attractions are trying to entice paying visitors.
All I’m saying is that I tend to head for those heritage lines which indicate their loco plans and will continue to do so. There’s really no need to get so cross about it.

 

I agree. Of course there's a question of how it can be provided, and how that fits into the rest of the organisation, but if this is seen as marketing, it is part of how a railway can draw additional visitors at probably low cost.

 

We used to have a loco roster on our web site. However, I am led to believe that last minute changes to it led to our front line staff being subjected to unacceptable levels of abuse on more than one occasion. As a result, the decision was taken to remove it. It does rather seem that we can't keep some people happy no matter what we do. I am afraid that a vociferous and vocal minority spoiled it for the rest of us.

 

All I can say is that some of the other Southern grouping do publish expected motive power and I don't hear comments about abuse, maybe discuss with them in a Southern grouping meeting would help, maybe they have a way of publishing it with caveats?

 

I disagree. In your head (to use your turn of phrase) it may be the case, but as you have said you will take your custom elsewhere, it seems it does matter to you.

I do take the point about diesel vs steam, but I would suggest your initial comment was as to "which locomotive or unit", which is a much higher level of detail.

I do say, firstly, it is an unfair comparison. Paintings do not fail in the morning, so indicating which paintings are on display is of a level of reactiveness equivalent to which locos are in traffic and which are out use/under overhaul etc.

Secondly, the cost/benefit is wildly overstated (save in the case of a steam/diesel switch or an advertised star turn). Not even everyone on here is that bothered by which steam loco is operating, and this is, to say the least, an enthusiast-biassed site.

 

I'm sure several years ago when I planned a visit that there was no distinction between Steam or Diesel on the website, which was difficult for me as I was specifically targeting the railcar. However, I now note that this has been changed and the detailed timetable page now shows this information, so credit for that.

I think I, and any others, like to know when there's a 2-train service which is steam and which is diesel so that I can plan my days movements.... It's just that my itinerary is usually biased the complete other way around to most on this forum!

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Apart from anything else, publishing "XXX is the rostered loco for tomorrow" is a good excuse for a social media post to keep social media streams active, it can be tricky to come up with new content all the time especially for just run of the mill turn up and ride services, and publishing a rostered loco is at least one post sorted!