North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Ah, I see where you are coming from.

The comment up thread was that there was 70% take up of Gift Aid. If so, when you crunch the numbers you get about £2.3m in fare income, to which you can claim an additional £400k in GA.

Being generous, I assume that 70% represents individual passengers travelling on regular services, ie it is 70% of those for whom GA is even a conceivable option. Presumably there are other revenue streams where you know you can’t claim GA, notably any coach party traffic, footplate courses, and any contribution from dining train tickets (not the food element). But if regular tickets in 2024 contribute £2.7m (including GA) on the revenue side, then you have to hope there is another £2m+ on the other side to reach the 2023 figure of £4.7m operating income.

Tom

 

I agree though, as you point out, the Charitable Community Benefit Society is a recent option. If a heritage railways is already owned by an incorporated charity able to recover Gift Aid the benefits of conversion are less than for a limited company owner. A CCBS is the nearest thing to a members' preservation society whilst retaining the essential protection of limited liability. Unlike an incorporated charity it has shareholders. Consequently its shareholders"own" the railway. As it's not a company the complexities of company legislation do not apply and it has lighter touch regulation by the Financial Conduct Authority. Like an incorporated charity each shareholder/member has one vote and it has to be run in order to achive its qualifying charitable purposes. As you know the SVR intends to convert as part of its "One Railway" approach.

 

Well, up to a point. If it costs X to run the train, you get to X by multiplying your fare Y by expected number of passengers Z. As Y goes up Z tends to go down, but whether that will get you sailing past X or struggling to reach it is the thorny question!

Sent from my PGT-N19 using Tapatalk

 

Yes. At the start of 2023 season, the ticket was £40 which then went up to £45 (May/June?).

 

Yes, my 79 year old dad took out his NYMR membership days before the 2023 annual pass was launched, which meant members got 50% off services, whilst the annual pass gave you 100% off after the £40.

This was queried with the railway, who cancelled his membership in favour of the pass, which runs out in May having took it out again last year, so perhaps membership numbers have fallen through the floor in 2023/2024, but may rise again if 50% off is still applicable for this years offering?

 

We’re partial to a long weekend, but always stay Friday-Sun, travel Thurs & Monday. This is to maximise choice of ‘attractions’. Mondays are pretty much a desert, with most NT etc places closed, and these days pubs also.

 

I suspect that Fridays are quieter on the railway (I don’t have the evidence behind this thought as I don’t normally volunteer on Friday) as this is becoming a holiday let change over-day. Certainly, I do find Mondays fairly busy but this might be explained by Sheff’s comment that most alternative attractions are closed that day.

 

Fair point, but it’s no longer a ‘must do’ for us, largely on account of the cost, and danger of diesel haulage.

 

£50 for a round trip from Pickering to Whitby is a price I’d probably pay for a steam fix and the chance to sample s few ales but if the wife was with me - as has been the case in the past - we wouldn’t stump up £100 for a day out.

 

Agree completely - it's the scaling that kills the economics

 

Yes, though more recently we’d look at walking, say Goathland - Grosmont (via the Birch Hall Inn obvs) nosey in the shed, then train to Whitby for F&C and more beers. Train journey alone no longer cuts it.

 

The usual plan would be to do some walking to include the Birch Hall Inn and railway photography on the Sunday, steam train for a day out in Whitby and/or Pickering on the Monday. It wasn’t the cheapest day out but I was happy to pay. £100 now for the two of us is a tad expensive.

 

Thanks, one of the more useful posts of late. As a former fixer of steam locomotives I have great admiration for the NYMR's ability to keep services running. Something that appears to be overlooked by some.

 

Who is overlooking the mpd’s ability to keep the services running and everyone else involved, for that matter? They all do a sterling job with very limited resources, certainly so in cash terms. The grumble is essentially about the direction the railway is being taken by those in charge of decision making.

 

I have much admiration for what NYMR have achieved - and think that the future has to lie in maximising the potential of Whitby alongside other markets that fill spare capacity and enhance the potential of the railway as a day out.
Having moved to Lincolnshire about 15 years ago, in our first few years, we drove up to Pickering several times to take the train to Whitby. The family makeup includes myself and one child who are fully committed to enjoying railways, another parent to likes a good day out (but isn't particularly interested in the mode of transport to achieve it, and a second son who finds railways boring.

Over time travelling on the NYMR has become less attractive, and the reasons tend to back up some of the other points made:
- the price has gradually crept up.
- the need to find and fund ancillary activities to meet the needs of all the family.
- appalling time-keeping on all of our visits - such that it became a family joke (and one that we found was not ours alone...).

The railway alone is expensive and once the other costs of the day are borne in mind, the option of day-trip to Whitby by train has moved from the once a year category to the very special occasion slot in family activity planning. The last time we visited NYMR, we ended up paying a significant amount for steam-haulage only in one direction between Pickering and Grosmont. Our train was late arriving into Whitby, meaning we had lost our reservation for fish-and-chips (the big attraction for the non-train-loving member of the party) and, on the return, two members of the family were very happy to look around an almost deserted MPD - but the other two were distinctly underwhelmed by the lack of anything to do whilst waiting for the next train - the only saving-grace being that when it arrived it was steam-hauled (the non-enthusiast son was saying the day had been 'pointless' until that point!).

As a worked example, we are looking to do a family day out with rail enthusiast family members who are visiting us during half term:
From the NYMR website there only seems to be the NER railcar operating - which doesn't tick the box of 'steam train' for the non-enthusiasts, and only has any attraction for one of the enthusiasts (and mild interest from another). The website says that the fares for 2025 have still not been decided - but that we can sign up to a mailing list if we want to know more.
- For our party of 8 the cost (travel by car/parking, food, estimate of NYMR fare - given that it is not readily obtainable on the website, lunch in Whitby, bribes to non-enthusiasts) might end up being in the region of £650 (£80pp).
- One alternative is a similar distance drive to the Great Central Railway, where we would see more steam trains, but where there is not the non-railway attraction for the non-enthusiasts. Positive advantage in that non-enthusiasts quite like the cafe by the car park at Rothley. The comparator cost is £450 (£56pp).
- Second alternative, suggested by non-enthusiast, was Statfold Barn - where there are non-railway attractions (though some of the enthusiasts need to work out the balance between seeing 'real' trains and small ones!). Slightly longer drive, different 'enthusiast' offer, but the comparator cost is £400 (£50pp).

The decision will be made when everyone arrives to stay with us tomorrow - but I suspect that I will not be having fish-and-chips in Whitby.

 

Info is here:
https://www.nymr.co.uk/event/february-half-term-with-ner-autocar#null

There is steam running to Whitby and mainly Autocar shuttle to Goathland with the odd steam return.
Fares £25 or £13.50 for half the mileage.

 

Link not working on my iPad ?

 

Unable to acess NYMR web site this morning via iPad and iMac.

 

Works for me (on Safari / Mac).

Tom

 

There seems to be a local BT problem.