North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Likewise. I think chez nous we have four operational Victorian 4 wheelers (mixed LBSCR and LCDR, one converted to wheelchair accessible) with two more under overhaul; the 4 Metropolitan bogie carriages from the turn of the century (which recently had all the door locks renewed - I think 50 doors in the complete set); an LBSCR bogie first (running on a LNWR under frame); an SE&CR Birdcage brake and a LSWR Brake 3rd (both running on their original Mansell wooden wheels); a GNR clerestory Directors' saloon; a LNWR Observation saloon; an SECR 10 compartment bogie third; 3 Maunsells of different designs, with another imminently to be outshopped and a fifth under overhaul; 3 Bulleids with another one under intermediate overhaul; 3 1920s Pullmans (wooden bodied, steel covered; one wheelchair accessible) and about a dozen or more Mark 1s (with a couple wheelchair accessible). That's a lot of different designs to cope with! Maintained by a small paid and larger volunteer workforce. That's the operational fleet, there are plenty more to keep the restorers happy for years to come. Apart from the distinction between 1st and 3rd, there is no premium for riding in the older carriages. Buy your day rover and you can ride in whatever we have put out that day.

To me it comes back to soul. You can look at the Gresley's as "too hard" and find myriad reasons - real and spurious - why they can't possibly form part of your fleet. Or you can look on them as an opportunity both to wow the paying public and motivate the staff with a feeling of pride.

A couple of weekends ago, I was firing our Bulleid. Approaching Horsted Keynes from the south, we passed the down yard where Fenchurch was finishing its day by shunting about 10 mostly pre-grouping wagons which had made up the day's goods train. Then in the station we crossed "Beachy Head" with the three Maunsells and 100 seater. The pride and motivation in seeing that and thinking "I'm part of this organisation" was palpable.

Tom

 

Is that going to be the point at which the existing Glaisdale-Whithy section will be split into Glaisdale-Grosmont and Grosmont-Whitby sections? I know that that was considered when Platform 2 at Whitby was being reinstated, but dismissed at the time as not being required - yet...

Mark

 

I’m not trying to have a go here; it would be lovely to have a railway that oozes ‘NER’ throughout, but looking at it on a purely practical level…

Given that the LNER (and its predecessors) are the least well-represented of the big four in preservation, would it actually be possible to try and create more of an LNER- focussed experience in the NYMR, in terms of rolling stock?

As has already been mentioned, without robbing the SVR of its fleet, you would struggle to put together enough coaches to run a second set of 7 plus spares for rotation - you’d have to basically try and persuade all those railways that have the odd one or two, such as the Stainmore Railway and the EARM, to give up theirs. The NNR ones are, I think, ruled out - iirc some of them are no longer fully clad in teak due to supply or cost issues so hence the Blood & Custard paint job (though they look fab).

Traction-wise, the NYMR needs locos of class 4 and above realistically, so we have 6 surviving A4s, one A3, one A2 and one A1, the Q6 & Q7, the O4, the V2, two B1s, a K1 and a K4.

All the Pacifics are either mainliners or museum pieces with no chance of revival.
The O1 is more appropriate to the GCR hence why it is under overhaul there.
The Q7, V2 and K4 are stuffed and mounted, one B1 has moved away because it’s owning group aren’t based locally and the other is another mainliner which leaves us with the Q6, already resident, and potentially the K1.

So I’m not sure if it’s actually physically possible unless you wanted to keep the Whitby services as they are and try and run an LNER experience on the the internal diagrams. I may have misunderstood the intention though!

 

That last sentence says it all and I wish I could say the same with the NYMR. Despite over 47 years of involvement I’m not proud of the way the organisation is. At grass roots it is wonderful but it falls apart in the way it is run.

 

Can see why NYMR is in the state it’s in with its can’t do/can’t be bothered to do / too difficult to try to do
/let’s find an excuse not to do etc attitude from the top down …

 

My simple mind can’t see how simply splitting the existing Glaisdale -Whitby section at Grosmont can work. There is no loop and no signalling. Whether the latter can be overcome by stop boards as at Glaisdale I don’t know but without a loop, I doubt it. For a start, in theory you can have a train leaving Whitby whilst one is approaching from Glaisdale with the inevitable consequences. How do you cater for that?

 

I know, it seems odd, but as I understood it, at present you can't, for example, leave Grosmont towards Whitby from P2 or P3 until a train that has left P1 at Grosmont has reached Glaisdale, and that is restrictive. Ditto a NYMR train returning from Whitby means that a Battersby - Whitby service cannot be released from Glaisdale until the NYMR service is 'through the gate' and clear of NR metals. I agree - with the existing layout you'd have to be careful about not ending up with two services facing each other. I presume that, yes, it would be stop boards at appropriate locations - and the Nunthorpe signaller would be in overall control.

Mark

 

At some point on the line the two sections have to end so where would this be? Presumably in platform 1 and, as I say, you can have two trains going towards platform 1 from opposite directions. There has to be some form of overlap where the train stops and the driver picks up the next token. NYMR trains currently have to be able to go to Glaisdale in case there is a problem with the ground frame at Grosmont or, as has happened, a derailment fouling the double slip and preventing access onto the NYMR although it was before trains started runnnig to Whitby.

 

It wouldn't be possible to go "all-out" LNER, much less NER, so MK 1s will always be art of the scene, but the LNERCA did manage to collect enough Gresleys and Thompsons together to form two virtually (in terms of capacity) identical 7-coach trains with some spares and enough extras to form a vintage diner that could be formed around the NER and ECJS diners with the Gresley restaurant car; in fact getting on for half of those had been running till recently; incidentally, I'd be interested to learn why the state of the track has been damaging the teak carriages but not the more numerous Mk 1s, or is that just a piece of what might be termed "fake news"? Obviously it was always going to take time to get them all back into traffic but several have been partly restored and parts have been collected, and the restoration progress has gradually been speeding up. Now, however, the emphasis seems to be on restoring carriages with the best prospects for hiring out elsewhere, so they will likely be lost to the NYMR, and some have already been lost because of their discouragement.

 

There are a few people in Worcestershire and Shropshire I can think of who would absolutely tear you a new one upon reading that post. (As they have done)

Seriously Mr Bailey why not go and have a chat with them and find out reasons why things CAN be done regarding Coaching stock?

Do you and your organisation not take a leading role in ‘developing best practice?’

 

I am going to swim against the tide a bit here, and say yes there are practical difficulties. In an ideal world you would definitely carry out the welding and cutting in a different place to the woodworking. Others will no doubt also recall the disastrous fire at Ropley which I won’t get into in detail here, but has led to a rule about the time at which hot work must cease prior to the last person leaving.

That places a restriction on flexibility of course, but it hasn’t caused major issues. One way around it has been for the welder to start work earlier than everyone else, finish earlier and leave the chippies to keep the fire watch for a couple of hours. If the NYMR board are hearing that such a mix of work between Mk1s and the Teaks is contributing to it being very difficult to program, then someone isn’t prepared to think even moderately outside the box.

 

I learned a long time ago that it is always easier to argue why you can't do something than argue why you can. That's especially the case where you are trying to justify the decisions, even when it's totally irrelevant to what is actually being discussed.

 

I understand that the alignment of the track at the new Goathland bridges has been suggested as a reason for some problems with the coaches, not just the teaks. Hence the 5mph speed restriction.

 

Changing the subject completely: will there be any further operating days for the autocar at the NYMR? According to the current issue of Trackside it was due to be operating every Sunday during April, May and June, but I can't find any information online.

Also, has the trailer car been repaired following its rough shunt back in February?

Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk

 

The timetable on the website indicates its operating every Sunday in April, but not after that (when the railway appears to go down to just three services each way on a Sunday).

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How many carriages are out of service through rough shunts? Seems like rather a recurring theme, has anyone investigated thoroughly why? I mean really looked at the issues and solutions? For example minimising the number of shunts would be a method of reducing incidence.

 

The rough shunt took 11 Mk.1's out of service for varying anounts of repairs. The incident was put down to human error but both the driver and shunter were very experienced people with many years of service. I'll not go into more detail. I don't think that there are many such incidents and they are all thoroughly investigated. As for your suggestion that shunting should be minimised, it already had been and footplate crews rarely get to do it. Personally, I think that this is actually a mistake. I can't remember the last time I actually had to buckeye any coaches because such shunting is usually performed by C & W staff these days and the sets are already made up for you. All you have to do is tie on your loco. Time was when it was the norm to add strengtheners to the daily sets. If you listen to Tom these things are pretty much routine on the B.B.

 

No, I'm afraid I don't think they do. There's nothing historic about the way they finish their Mk 1s, the interior finishes are characterised by cheapness rather than authenticity, for example.

 

Then one one wonders why it has not been a priority to be fixed, over the course of a winter with no major renewal projects being carried out.

 

The number involved is not the result of a recurring pattern but rather that eleven coaches were involved in one incident.
That has been fully investigated and operational procedures have been amended accordingly. The trailer car damage ( which has now been fully repaired) was not a rough shunt incident.
On a brighter note the management’s decision to operate heritage experiences this week using Sir Nigel Gresley has been a rip roaring success. Understandably there was pressure for the teak coaches to be repaired in time to be used with the A4. That would have made a great spectacle but in practice the eight Mark1’s used have been filled to capacity. Use of the lower capacity teak set would have reduced income……unless of course fares on it were increased to compensate!