North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I don’t think that’s the argument you make it out to be - not least as the lack of repairs denied the option.

 

Obviously the option would exist if the railway had prioritised spend on the teak set over other demands on its resources. The fact remains that using a six coach lower capacity set for the SNG week would only have generated the same very welcome income if the fares charged for travel on the teak set had been considerably higher.

 

It certainly seems mad for the railway to bear a continuing net cost, unless running those coaches (whether charging the standard fare to ride in them or even a premium fare) would represent a greater net loss. Can that really be the case?

 

That misses the point, including as to the other revenue possibilities that may have existed.

 

Really? Surely that’s exactly the point? Unless a higher fare was charged for the teak set during SNG week using eight mark 1s produces a better financial result.
Of course if the funds could be found to repair the set there would be other opportunities for it to generate revenue but that really does miss the point . The question should be whether those opportunities would enable the NYMR to generate a return on that investment after taking hires fees into account.

 

But doesn't your comment show a misunderstanding of preserved railways and why people get involved in working on them for free or visit them. They are all commercially unviable that is why they use volunteers, donations, grants etc. If you want to focus on pure commercial operation then the NYMR should run DMUs, through stations with bus shelters, some form of minimalist signalling etc, basically like network rail and northern on the Esk valley line. If everything is viewed purely as a commercial investment there would be a very little to no preserved railways in Britain.
Not suggesting there should be financial control on the business etc, but you risk throwing the baby out with the bath water if commercial is the only judgement / decider

 

And sod any contracted legal liabilities ?

Repairing coaches would both enable a proper service to be run in the peak demand season and alleviate any need to hire in stock as per last years steam gala..

A proper service rather than Whitby Park and Ride ,enables customers to break their journeys and visit shops and cafes etc at the stations en route …it might even make 2025’s gift aid deal almost inviting for some .

 

He’s doing his best to get NYMR there or worse .

 

At last -someone agrees with me!

 

Yes, and the NYMR wants to capitalise on that value but doing so has to make financial sense. Perhaps a fair comparison with the SVR is would be what would it use for its main services if all their pre -war stock wasn’t allowed to operate between Bewdley and Kidderminster?
60044 is right to highlight the constraints of running through services over Network Rail but that’s what the vast majority of NYMR paying visitors want to do. Unfortunately that means the opportunity for pre war stock on the NYMR is restricted in a way that the SVR and others operating only over their own infrastructure aren’t.

 

Which is really an admission, I think, that the NYMR management no longer sees it as a heritage railway - or if it does, it is "heritage " in their own narrow terms, that really excludes the interests of many of their supporters. In other words, its a management that is completely misaligned with the volunteers and supporters who created it in the first place!

 

I’m relieved that there isn’t a recurring of rough shunts.

So the NYMR situation is that most of the available custom wants to go to Whitby, but the numbers/revenue doesn’t support the railway. However, the volume of traffic is such that there is little or no capacity to create other services. I would be analysing how many people would still travel over the line if it didn’t go to Whitby, and how much more cheaply the line could be operated if it didn’t.

I would also examine what the perceived fair price would be if the line didn’t go beyond Grosmont. It might not be that much less than is possible to charge for the Whitby services, which might mean the surplus was proportionally better.

That will not be the whole answer, but if that were to free up capacity to innovate in other ways it might yet be an approach worthy of study. Hopefully it has been done?

 

Indeed, it is the question. And one that appears not to have been asked, while presuming some very specific answers around the returns possible from using SNG

 

If they were repaired, perhaps they would attract more filming contracts? The teak set was IIRC, used for filming in 3 or 4 films in the 2010's.

 

I think you will find that I have essentially suggested those options and have been told it's just not possible to even think about it - which probably means the answer is known but Whitby operations are seen as a sacred cow. I think that any ability within the NYMR management to innovate at the NYMR has long since evaporated, but I'm sure Lineisclear will now come forward with a long list of successful innovations that I have missed...........

 

Well, the price charged for 60007 (£30) has proved to be a success and I would assume that this special service counts as a premium service. To see the heaving platforms, buffets and shops has got to be good for the railway and I can't remember when 8 coach trains were last used. My personal opinion is that this level is pitching somewhere near what the public perceive to be reasonable.

 

When something succeeds it would be nonsense not to take note. Essentially the SNG week is evidence of the potential for pre -booked experiences and the benefit, as others have found, of working with third party promoters.
As Steve will no doubt recall from the recent HRA conference the increased use of digital marketing techniques focussed on special experiences was identified as a potential growth area.

 

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There's another of your subtle elisions there!

As far as I can see, the differences with the SNG services over normal services were that (1) they were pre-booked (2) cheaper (3) didn't go to Whitby.

And yet you have leapt direct to "essentially the SNG week is evidence of the potential for pre -booked experiences".

Three things changed; how do you know therefore that the success was driven specifically by the pre-booking? I'd suggest a significant reduction in price might have had something to do with it!

It's always difficult in business, when you have so many things changing simultaneously, to know why some things you try work, and some don't. But I don't think you help yourself by just leaping on the one change that supports your own theory and ignoring all others. To my eye, knocking 40% off your prices must have had a big impact, probably linked to being early in the year when - I suspect - a seaside destination is a less obvious choice; and perhaps also a service appealing to one market sector (enthusiasts) for whom the traction is more important than the destination.

Hopefully the board are doing a more thorough analysis. But on the surface, I might be looking at that and thinking "hmm, maybe there's a market in shoulder seasons for a cheaper service not going to Whitby", and making the Whitby service more of a peak summer offering? Sometimes in business you can end up putting cause and effect the wrong way round ...

Tom