Tornado

I am delighted that Tornado is signed off, and wish all the best for the ETCS testing. This is genuinely important work, and all should wish this pilot installation well.

Working in IT, words like “testing” and “pilot” make me nervous; success is far from a guaranteed outcome.

That still leaves the questions about the locomotive condition, restoration and trust governance open. So no axe being ground, large signs of relief, but grave concerns about the state of what remains, for me, an uninvestable project.

 

Correct - the facts are no different to a Riley 5, Bahamas, or Duchess of Sutherland.
Once again, Tornado has not been sold to West Coast, it has entered into an operating agreement. 'Selling the family silver' is simply factually incorrect - the A1st still own and manage the loco - it's base remains Darlington and it can still visit wherever the Trust wants (such as the SVR in July).
If anything, supporters will have more opportunities to interact with the loco than ever, given the volume of trips RTC and West Coast promote across the length and breadth of the country.
I doubt West Coast would turn away any A1st volunteer who wish to help support the loco in its mainline running - especially if running out of Southall or Bristol for example.

 

So the A1SLT have the right to manage Tornado so much that they had to paint it a different colour. That's a pretty partial definition of management IMO.

As for getting to it to visit wherever the trust wants, this is subject to the pretry big proviso that it can only do so when WCR aren't using it.

As for maintaining, well, lets see.

I'm sure WCR won't turn down free labour, but it seems fairly poor on any covenantor that they have to go an join a third-party organisation to get to "their" engine.

I note that those who had made bookings or had replacement trips due to them were still waiting for confirmation as to what was happenning to them. Still as far as I know awaiting an announcement. Not a brilliant signal as to how they treat their funders

 

So are you suggesting A1st turn down a multi year operating agreement worth £100ks because of paint colour? Not even the A1st are that daft. David Smith also knows they need the cash and he obviously prefers it in this colour - it's called business & agreement has been reached. You could look at his point of view, he's paying a lot of money for an asset he wishes to use repeatedly over several years, should he not have a say in how it appears on West Coast trains? GB Rail freight livery appeared on 2 class 50s for several years as part a running agreement.

Yes, no different to other mainline locos, that can visit other locations, in between mainline commitments (I believe 60007 used to have a provision for NYMR running) - isn't it called business management & maximising income? Something the A1st have been criticised for not doing.

I am not trying to pretend there aren't issues within the trust, especially in regards to recent project management. But I do feel the criticism of the deal with West Coast is completely unwarranted and hypocritical when compared to similar deals with other loco owning groups. The loco (rightly or wrongly) hasn't earnt a penny for 3 years and has cost £100ks, this deal will go a long way to recoup that at an uncertain time for the industry. Criticise the chairman as much as you like for other decisions, but his priority should be safeguarding the loco and this deal does that.

We all want to see an A1 running on the mainline, without ignoring the last 3 years, this is now happening. Also importantly it is back earning £, without that it won't run - simple as that.

Who's said volunteers have to join a third party organisation to get access to Tornado? That will come as news to the Bahamas and Clan Line support crews! However, both RTC and West Coast are seeking stewards which is an additional opportunity. Tornado will need to continue to be staffed wherever it goes, either mainline or heritage railway by existing volunteers. These maybe supplemented by West Coast staff as required, or vice versa.
BTW any volunteer would be required to operate under a train operator's safety case and operating rules, whatever the loco.

I will now crawl back under my rock, which for my sanity is probably where I should have stayed - unfortunately I find it difficult not to correct misinformation.

 

What misinformation?
The trust have admitted themselves that the colour change was a requirement of WCR. I don't care about the colour one way or the other, but it's a very visible symbol that the trust have ceded a level of control.

As you say WCR are paying a tidy sum for the use or Tornado, so WCR will (rightly) have first dibs on it. So again, the trust give up a level of control.

So what are they allowed to manage? That isn't "bashing" the trust, that's stating what's happening. If you don't like it, that's a matter of opinion, but what bit of the above is untrue?

Ditto, as it stands, the trust have said they will make an announcement about refunds/transferred bookings and have not done so.

Personally, I think that reflects very poorly on the trust, as the majority of those people will be people who have been paying for Tornado.

 

If only loco ownership was simple. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made - been there, got the t-shirt etc. - and I think the Trust has faced reality, bitten the bullet and done what is necessary to get her back on the main line and secured some sort of future for the loco. They may have made a number of mistakes regarding this overhaul but they’ve come up with an agreement that gets her back where she belongs. I for one applaud that. As for the colour, it doesn’t bloody matter!

 

Has anybody seen the contract and monies involved...if so can it be published here ?

 

The bottom line for the livery - "He who pays the piper calls the tune". There may even be a clause which says that she'll go back into apple green at the end of the agreement, of course.

Mark.

 

Just got news ... Tornado to haul three legs of GB tour next month....

 

30th April - Edinburgh to Inverness

2nd May - Inverness to Edinburgh

3rd May - Newcastle to Peterborough

 

We must be on the "A" list....

 

To clear up the waffle on support crew, as far as I know the loco owner supplies the support crew, all that they need is a PTS card issued by the TOC. The support crews I have met at Fort William have been Riley employees, on Bahamas, Clan Line SNG and others they are all the owning group’s volunteers.
Regarding WCR influence on the operation, we have been here before. The last time Tornado worked with West Coast I believe they had to purchase their coal from Mr Smith’s company and were required to spend time on the Wensleydale Railway, all contracts will have conditions.

 

The Wensleydale visit was at the behest of the then "boss" of that railway, one Col. Steve Davies. It was nothing to do with Mr Smith as far as I know.

Peter

 

I must have been misinformed but I know David Smith also has a financial interest in the railway

 

Yes and no John. We are back to semi truths and crossed wires again. It may be that the only bit of the Wensleydale railway that he is interested in is the site of Aysgarth station which he owns. It is very different from the Wensleydale Railway itself even though they are neighbours so to speak.

Best to leave pub talk down at the pub.

Peter

 

Tornado has been announced to haul 3 legs of the GB, Edinburgh to Inverness, Inverness to Edinburgh, and Newcastle to Peterborough. Sounds like the 3 best legs of the trip that