Nene Valley Railway

Maybe these railways have had too many bad experiences with photographers who think they know better or don't like being told where they can go?

 

Anti- rail enthusiast or anti- entitled photographers? Worth making the distinction.

 

Why do people always assume it’s photographers to blame? There are idiots without cameras too.

 

Because lineside passes are largely for photographers!

 

I saw no mention of passes in johnb’s one line post.

 

I can't speak for the Nene Valley, but I'd say in my experience, in the rare occasions when I have seen trespassers on the line, it has never been accredited photographers, or even people with cameras at all. More likely a group of youngsters taking a short cut somewhere, and even that is rare. Of course trespass is a problem to be managed, but I'd say photographers are rarely the culprit - at least on our line.

Experience on other lines, and the mainline, may be different of course. There is a part of me that wonders whether the places with the worst trespass problem are also those with the most draconian anti-photographer attitude? I wonder if there is an element that if a photographer is determined to get their photo anyway, perhaps it is better if they have gone through a controlled process of gaining access to the line side than an uncontrolled one?

Tom

 

There are very few entitled photographers but many railway enthusiasts who do or have in the past put in a lot of time, effort and money into our railways who also take photos. There are at least half a dozen photographers on Nat Pres who fit that description. I occasionally get pictures published in the railway press and receive a repro fee that’s normally donated to the owning group of the subject of the picture, I know others who do the same. We all in this for the same purpose.

 

I think you are right Tom, I know the Bluebell issue lineside passes but as most of my photography there is on photo charters I can’t justify the cost. Having said that I would feel guilty if I trespassed to get what others have paid good money for. When Clan Line was down there I did ask if I could walk out to Ketches Farm to get a picture of it for the Society journal, a request that was readily granted. For that reason and the way we were made to feel so welcome on the railway I decided to become a member. It’s unfortunate that I’ve visited a few railways where people skills are distinctly lacking.

 

Speaking of entitled photographers, does anyone know of an older gentleman with a handlebar moustache who photographs steam charters in Yorkshire? I had to have a word with him the other year about his behaviour towards members of the public wanting a photo with the loco, and he claimed he was a ‘special photographer’. I don’t really believe him but wondered if he’s known…

 

I came across someone just like that about 25 years ago at Peterborough station: I'd gone there with my wife and others to photograph a Deltic at the end of platform 2 (as was) when said individual strolled up and said we had to get out of his way as he was photographing the driver with his mother or something...

 

Description doesn’t ring a bell but I can think of a more apt term for him than “special photographer”.

 

Replace "photographer" with "needs"?

 

Wanting a shot of the driver and his mum was not unreasonable but to demand rather than ask politely for someone to move was definitely not cricket.

 

Indeed, in this case the photographer I encountered was yelling at a young man with additional needs to 'get out of the way' - the young man quite rightly wanted a photo with WC's most confused Jubilee, Galberta Leone. I pointed out to our old codger that every single person on that platform had equal right to be there as him. He didn't like that.

 

I know this is completely besides the point but this got a chuckle out of me

 

Sort of bringing this back to NVR, even on a photo charter there can be problematic participants. Having made changes to how we run the day (all designed to improve the manageability and safety aspects of the day), one particular photographer seemed to be intent on complaining about everything, continuously and very vocally, and in a manner that caused several other participants to complain to us about their behaviour. Given all the other feedback we've received, that person appears to be in a minority of one. We were, as ever, polite and professional, but it definitely wasn't fun and impacted other people's enjoyment of the day.

 

Take off the mailing list for future charters. There is no excuse for that

 

Hello there! Long time lurker and first time poster. Apparently I am the entitled photographer and public enemy number one in these parts.

It was with initial anger which has faded to deep disappointment at the utterly one sided and quite frankly self important account provided here.

While I may be a relatively new face in charter attendance I have nonetheless experienced pretty much all they have to offer including sideways rain and some dim and dismal weather. These experiences were vastly more enjoyable than the two events I attended at the Nene Valley.

I'll come back to the safety issues alluded to elsewhere here but oh so vastly underplayed in their severity.

So first and foremost, apparently my swearing in frustration. I apologise if my language was deemed offensive and I will endeavour to switch it for 'Oh, for forks sake' as I do in front of my primary school aged child rather than with a group of my peers in future.

I would like to say that these events are precious to me and I try to attend as many as I can as finances allow because they are increasingly expensive not only in first hand cost but all the associated expenses like fuel, hotels, food, childcare as well as days off being scarcer than they used to be. Apparently it's entitled to expect an event organiser to do their level best for attendees, but I've had no such issues at other events run by railways, photographers and commercial companies. So perhaps it's a minority of one in the form of an organiser who believes he's entitled to our money and very little care on delivering what is promised instead.

This frustration had built up over both events I attended. I will lay out my version of events and let you decide what is what. I imagine like always it's somewhere in the middle, but I suspect I know which will be believed here.

Like any good charter there is usually a safety briefing and discussion of the initial plans for the day but unlike most they're fairly light on details and the key takeaway is we are here to help raise funds for the wagon group and for them to enjoy seeing them behind an expensive locomotive, that is no one involved is a photographer and don't know what we want (for me it's to be able to photograph the train in a pleasing location, nice light is appreciated but having sheltered in vintage 4 wheelers on Freshfield bank as a storm rolled through it's not always gotten). This might be a joke, humour is subjective after all, but for me this leaves a bit of sour note to start the day and hints of the day to come.

First location Peterborough, we assemble, form a gallery and few late comers and staff mill around in front of us. We politely ask the organiser to move them and the response starts from something approximating 'Who?' and ends with 'Well, you do it'. I can't remember specific wording from a conversation over a month ago but the attitude was dismissive and unhelpful.

Onto the second location where the reason for our coloured wristbands is made clear. Having done a number of charters where locations are tight on the surface the idea of using them to rotate groups seemed like a good one as there are always a couple of people who just want to perfect the one shot versus my try a few different angles and see what works best. At this location there was insufficient space for the number of attendees to form a single gallery so we were assured that a location a short walk away was where we were headed and we wouldn't see the forward gallery. Disappointingly this was not the case and a field of High-vis orange filled the Longville branch. Compositionally challenging as normally I like a little breathing space to showcase the location and as much of the full train as possible. Sadly the best I could pull off to hide the other attendees was a disappointing series of smoke box door images with a sheen of High-vis rather than the full train I had paid for. Ah well, it would be our turn next and the first group had struck lucky at least once. So we swap places, form up and wait for the clouds that filled in while we did. 'Everyone ready?' comes the question, 'Can we wait a moment to let the clouds pass?', 'No, we're running late and need to fit two runs in' is the response. As predicted we get a runpast in gloom and the train sets back in sunshine. Ah well, at least a couple of us noticed that it hadn't got up speed enough for a consistent exhaust so I politely ask for it to be set back a little further, nothing I or others haven't done before at other charters. The result is to be glared at as if I'd asked the impossible before it's grudgingly done. Again the clouds roll in, I ask for a little moment to wait and get told no or we'll start running late. As such we get another gloomy runpast and board the pacer and travel in sun.

During travel I shared my frustrations with my designated group leader, what I'm after for the day and I get an initially promising sounding 'We'll see what we can do' and reassurance that we're the front gallery first at the third location.

Success! More by luck than judgement (as is the case sometimes) we get the sun. Rather than push my luck with an organiser who looks at me like he wishes he could tie me to the tracks and I refrain from asking to hold. I just let it go for the second gloomy run.

So back to the rear gallery again, the leader assured me that they'd throughly tested it as a location and the split galleries would work. While technically yes, it was possible to work it using the parcels net to mask at a certain angle, the unfortunate consequence was again High-vis smear. By this point I was getting increasingly frustrated and showed the back camera evidence to my group organiser and related it was starting to feel like my day was being wasted. Again I get reassurances that it'll be different in the afternoon, although delivered with sincerity they start to feel a little hollow.

So, Wansford arrivals, clouds have finally rolled in and I assume that this location is going to be a write off as sometimes happens. A consistent issue throughout the morning was communication through Chinese Whispers. Initially fine but as the day wore on it just added to the frustrations. During the lunch break we were supposed to be able to walk off the of the platform to take photos, but this hadn't been confirmed and being overly cautious about being run over I asked a group leader what was going on. His response was inconclusive and I think at this point my frustrations started to leak out. Not my finest moment, but I refrain from swearing and let a more pointed 'Fine, whatever' than intended and I begin to tune out and give up on actually getting what I would like out the day.

After lunch, the sun puts in appearance. At this point I have little to lose and already expecting a no to my only really entitled request of the day so I approach the organiser and ask if we could have just a single run past over the Nene and get the stunning arrival shot in the sun. Cue another dismissive stare and being told 'No, people want the tunnel shot and leave me alone'.

At this point I'm done with politeness, I'm tired, mentally exhausted and the weight of having a considerable sum of money and an entire day off wasted, not to mention feeling bad about recommending it to a couple of others I car share to these with. But after another round of out in gloom and set back in sun the 'Oh, for fork sakes' start leaking out. Not really directed at anyone though, my limit of internalising is long gone. Am I justified at this point? Apparently the one thing I'm not entitled to be is utterly fed up. The coup de grace is one set of runpasts at the tunnel mouth when the rain sets in. Tim apparently finds this immensely funny and tells us if we're having the runpasts as we paid for them. So there ends a fairly miserable day. I leave as I can't be bothered with the on shed stuff and head home in mutual disappointment with the two others.

I write a snarky email and initially leave it at that but the severe safety issues that plagued the first day come back so I leave a rather pointed review rather than message the ORR and leave it at that. Or so I thought, Tim isn't happy I called out the safety breaches and writes an abusive email. I ignore that and go on with life happy that neither of us will have to see each other again.

I'm guessing what's triggered this is the railway finally responded to the review and I'm also guessing all charters at the NVR have been halted for now because of pointing out the organisers sweeping under the carpet the gross negligence.

So the safety stuff that has been down played in this sorry drama is violating pretty much every rule in the safety hand book during the Scotsman Charter. This includes failure to enforce High-vis clothes, allowing inadequate footwear, allowing people to wander around while the train is in motion and far, far too close while it does. That all pales in comparison to the big one Tim brought on himself. While two volunteers were still on or very close to the tracks without the due care and attention needed for this sort of event Tim summoned the train. Attempts to stop with a red flag failed but by some good grace no one was hurt. Now, is this really the sort of event worth a considerable sum of money or potential for life altering injuries? I say not. Maybe I went into second day and already on edge, probably. I'm responsible for my own actions though.

The characterisation shared here of me being entitled because I won't stand for gross negligence is so very disappointing but not unsurprising from those with a very high opinion of themselves, having the only keys to the toybox and never being told no.

I had in mind to leave it there after the review, but after this deliberately defamatory thread casting aspersions on my character I have regrettably decided to respond with the nuclear option. Before writing this I have sent an email to the ORR with the photographic evidence I have. Mine is possibly on the slight side but there is stronger evidence out there if you know who to ask.

Disappointingly I've also witnessed what small minded and insular groups do with friends who call 'Leading Lights' in the community out on their unsavoury behaviour. So I have to say any and all attempts to dox, harras, threaten, cyberstalk or any other intimidating behaviour towards myself will be gathered for evidence and referred to the relevant authorities. If you want to come at me at least say it to my face rather hiding behind a keyboard like a coward. Maybe this is heavy handed but I'm too old and tired to deal with bullies anymore.

I apologise profusely to any responsible charter organisers who have to deal with any unintended consequences from this. All the ones I have had the pleasure of going to you have all been amazing. For trying to please the often unpleasable and your passion for doing what you do shines through on even the dreariest day.

Anyone who knows or suspects who I am is welcome to discuss this in person over a hot drink and sausage roll at a charter, if you see me stood in a field at a gala or share a compartment trundling up and down a line. I hope I haven't come across as entitled in person and that our interactions have been genuine for me. If anyone I consider a friend feels they need an apology from me for writing this I will happily oblige when I see you next.

Edit: Typos, grammar, formatting

 

Responding while keeping anonymous I see. Reporting to ORR with the possible negative consequences for other organisers is out of order IMO. Could you not have contacted the railway’s management first?