North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Thinking about this, they've gone from saying "we'll get £68 (after GA) from passengers buying on the day" to "we'll accept £15 per person" in a remarkably short space of time. Less than a month into the season in fact!

 

Potentially out of the box thought.. though yes I know it comes with its own issues..

Why not force people off the train at Grosmont?

Have the Pickering to Grosmont section go back to what I would call more 'normal' timetables without the Whitby path constraints. Then have one Whitby train just running between Whitby and Grosmont.

You keep the Whitby connection, and have more people in Grosmont for a set time between trains, potentially using foods/shop stops. You can charge seperate fees for each train type. You need less carriages maintained to NR standards and only one Whitby engine per day.

There will no doubt be some growns about not having direct trains to Whitby but you can still offer these on special days as and when you see fit.

 

Not much of a passenger proposition having to get off at Grosmont both ways, perhaps in the rain, hang around or change platforms.
Probably works well to kill of Whitby traffic, so suits all those who seem so against it as a destination for the railway.

 

That assumes that you don’t kill the golden goose of Whitby demand by forcing that change of train.

From experience, Grosmont is not a great place to wait with small children, and mixing “internal” demand on the line with “Whitby” demand risks confusing two distinct segments.

I think that NYMR fail to develop the “internal” traffic, but do not see that being achieved by turning Grosmont into an interchange station.

 

I genuinely wonder about this..

Presumably Grosmont used to cope with a train load at a time stuck there before a possible return, before the Whitby connection was made. As for Whitby itself, is it the golden goose? Or is it a noose in this current system of operating? I don't pretend to know the numbers but nobody seems to disagree its a significant extra burden to maintain stock and engines to run that section. I'm not against Whitby running itself as that would just be daft to be honest with the potential market there. But if the aim was to bring people into the railway, rather than just be a connection to get people off it, then it needs managing differently.

My personal thoughts are that the railway has got confused between being a transport link and a museum. They've worried far too much about getting passengers between points instead of giving said passengers reasons to stay on the line. I don't disagree that none of the stations have enough there to keep you going for hours. But I would argue it is within the railways power to develop that.

 

The below are from when Whitby only had 1 platform in 2013

Assume this timetable can still work today?

The fares show the variety on offer in 2013.

 

£24 in 2013 = £33.15 in 2025 according to the Bank of England calculator (for a Pickering - Whitby day rover).

Tom

 

'Force' would be the appropriate word. From time to time passengers are required to change trains at Grosmont for operational purposes and it is well-known that this is not liked by those having to do it. People, especially those with children, are settled in their seats at the start of the journey. They then have to pick everything up and join a free-for-all in the jostle to find seats on the connecting train. Even worse for those with pushchairs or, even worse, with limited mobility. When the connecting train in the up direction is meeting one arriving in the down direction that means that you have two lots of possibly 300 people moving between platforms. For 2025, set swaps for operational purposes have been reduced to the absolute minimum to avoid all this.

When trains only ran to Grosmont many passengers would remain on the train for the 20 minutes whilst the loco ran round before departing back to Pickering. After all, the reason for the journey was largely for the scenic ride, not to visit the sleepy backwater that is Grosmont.
As for it being a 'significant extra burden', I'd disagree with that. There is something extra to contend with but it is largely confined to AWS/TPWS/GSMR requirements and registration of locos an stock with independent assessment when first put into service. FTR's are still required and the standard wouldn't/shouldn't be reduced simply because trains don't run to Whitby. Additional staff are required in the form of a travelling ground frame operator and perhaps an additional person in control. Medicals require an ecg but I'm starting to run out of extras.

 

And if we have a debate (MHR Gala thread) about enthusiasts be forced to get off and then reboard a train due to a shunt, it would be even more unpopular with the general public.

 

Grosmont is a station in a village; there is a difference between travelling there (and possibly back), and being compelled to take time there.

That then feeds into a second point. For good or ill, the statistics show that demand is Whitby centred.

I think it naive to assume that, if this became the standard, demand would hold up. People would find alternative, cheaper, ways to reach Whitby, while those in public facing roles would have to contend with disappointment and frustration from the public.

 

That's an interesting figure. Of course, I think most would agree that it is not wholly appropriate since heritage railways have been disproportionately hit by above average price rises, notably in coal and other energy prices, but they (despite the excuses often presented here!) do not fully justify the above normal rise in prices. Said prices rather indicate a business that has lost control of its cost base and has exacerbated the problems by taking on extra staff to an excessive degree.. I know I harp on about this, but there really needs to be a reset of the business to re-align its costs with those that it can sustain. and I'm really, really dubious that its present management have either the talent or guts to undertake and achieve that.

 

I can see nasty combination of events creating a deeper crisis.
The firecon inflexibility putting people off, a long period of warm, dry weather, the oil fired engines not being ready, and the real humdinger - the price!
I was parked in Park Street and saw numerous people disappointed the railway was closed and a group of about eight who all said the price was too high and they would do a short journey at best.