If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The Brighton Belle

Discussion in 'Diesel & Electric Traction' started by dace83, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. dace83

    dace83 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,095
    Likes Received:
    4
    There is quite alot of news coming out about the new Brighton Belle project
    (including a tour to raise money and the profile viewtopic.php?f=36&t=19990)

    The trust have two carriages from the NNR and I hear one is drying out at Holt.
    Here is the website http://www.brightonbelle.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=28
     
  2. George A

    George A New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    college student
    Location:
    Norwich
    Thanks for the website address, I beleive its the driving unit thats drying out at Holt :)
     
  3. George A

    George A New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    college student
    Location:
    Norwich
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Nice idea, it will be great to see a 5-BEL unit restored. Could be quite challenging getting a wooden framed electric unit accepted for main line use? I wonder if they will go for Blue/Grey livery!! [-X
     
  5. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    We don't want more preserved diesels, electrics or heritage units in boring blue or blue & grey. Saw enough of that between the late 60's & mid 80's. As for the wooden frame, don't forget some former Brighton Belle coaches form part of the VSOE.
     
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I was only joking about the Blue/Grey! I think that the VSOE Pullmans have an exemption as they have been continually in service, and are loco hauled, which may make a significant difference to their crash-worthiness? A 5-BEL unit being returned to service may well be regarded as a 'new' train as the original formation has not been in mainline operation since 1972?
     
  7. dace83

    dace83 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,095
    Likes Received:
    4
    There was a short bit in Joint line about wanting a 1 mile electic railway for them and running on the mainline with a 73.
     
  8. 76079

    76079 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    11
    The VSOE carriages and Queen of Scots carriages operate under grand father rights (They also have to have a barrier vehicle of suitable crashworthiness between the set and the locomotive) as you say they have never been out of rail service.

    However i believe you are not allowed to register any "new" wooden bodied carriages for use on the Network.
     
  9. sigsnguard

    sigsnguard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    0
    AFAIK, these are not wooden bodied coaches - in fact they are more like the MK2 in design. The group are more likely to be stumped by a lack of disabled access and central door locking than the make-up of the coaches.
     
  10. cct man

    cct man Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    3,220
    Likes Received:
    49
    Occupation:
    CONSTRUCTION
    Location:
    LONDON
    There is always "Doris" on the Bluebell that has not been converted to vacuum braking yet due to lack of finance and the non availability of any volunteer qualified to do the work.

    Perhaps the Bluebell might want to sell it to raise money for the extension?.

    Regards
    Chris
     
  11. secr1084

    secr1084 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are quite right, these are metal framed carriages, with stressed steel sides and no separate underframe i.e. the sides of the carriage hold the underframe to the right shape.

    Central door locking should not be too much of a problem there are very few doors to fit.

    Note. The VSOE have a variety of both wooden framed and steel framed carriages
     
  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Looking at the 5-BEL website, you are right; they were steel bodied, but like a Mk 2??? Are you possibly thinking of the later Met-Camm Pullmans as used on the 'Manchester Pullman' etc and later in the SLOA rake?
     
  13. SERA01UK

    SERA01UK New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Croydon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As one of the five trustees who administer the 5-Bel trust I am happy to answer some of the points raised in this thread:

    The trust owns driving motor third car 88 and trailer parlour third car 85 (stored at Southall). In addition we have on permanent loan driving motor third car 91 (stored at Holt, North Norfolk Railway) and trailer parlour third car 87 which is currently at the Kieth & Dufftown railway but in due course will return to the North Norfolk Railway for storage. The trust is missing a Trailer Kitchen First (such as Doris) and discussions to obtain one are allready in hand. By rights a correct 5-Bel would have two of these and only one trailer third but the scarcity of these cars (two are in the VSOE) makes the original formation an unlikely option.

    The vehicles are NOT timber framed but all steel construction and built like tanks !!! being substantially heavier than a MK. 1 or similiar. The trust has held meetings with the ORR to examine the issues surrounding the return of such a train to main line operation and I can reveal the ORR were very encouraging and certainly not dismissive of the possibilities surrounding the engineering and derogations that would be required. It should not be considered a 'done deal' however as there is much to be resolved and achieved yet !

    The estimated budget for the return of the Brighton Belle is in excess of £500K and donations are being sought with regular supports schemes being drawn up, the details of which will be published on the http://www.brightonbelle.com website.

    Work has allready started with car 88 now at Rampart Ltd. in Derby where it is being structually overhauled and replacement traction equipment is being sourced. A VAB approved engineering consultantcy has been engaged to draw up the design of mounting the replacement gear into the vehicles as the original BTH traction motors are long gone ! Car 88 is estimated to be outshopped in 12-18 months time. The engineering of this project is not in any way a volunteer based project and everything is being carried out under contract.

    The 5-Bel Trust has the backing of both the Transport Trust and Electric Railway Museum Limited and is seen as a 'Blue Ribbon' project to promoted the better representation of preserved electric traction in the UK.
     
  14. 73129

    73129 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    Messages:
    4,496
    Likes Received:
    1,079
    Location:
    Winchester
    One thing that may stop the unit from running solo on the main line maybe the cost of add things like OTMR and other safety equipment that maybe required to go with OTMR?
     
  15. secr1084

    secr1084 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think what is meant by 'built like a Mk2' is that they are both of stressed steel construction, ie, the the paneling as well as the frame take any loadings. Rather than just the frame e.g. on wooden framed carriages.

    Would be great to see them running... although I do wonder about what the ride is going to be like!
     
  16. andy999

    andy999 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    218
    Likes Received:
    0
    To be honest that's a fairly minimal cost compared to the cost of restoring the whole train. If they can raise the money to restore 5 coaches then they'll easily find the money for OTMR.
     
  17. dace83

    dace83 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,095
    Likes Received:
    4
  18. Buckeye

    Buckeye New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    11
    We're still waiting for 3142 to work electrically . . . . . . . . . .
     
  19. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Messages:
    2,839
    Likes Received:
    558
    Location:
    Isle of Wight
  20. noelist

    noelist Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    799
    Likes Received:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    LGV C+E(FormerlyHGVClass1) Driver
    Location:
    Lancaster
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As the fund raising rail tour for this project is at hand, I wonder why uksteam has it as an 'excursion' without mentioning the fact that its in aid of the The Brighton Belle restoration fund, it mentions the extra tender and non stop run, obviously to attract the thuso's but had it been noted about the brighton belle I would have taken more notice, sure I should have checked the operator sooner but it looked like it was just a possible run, likely to be cancelled, anyway I wish them every success, looks like a winner to me, and a very professional website.
    So good luck to them.
     

Share This Page