35011 General Steam Navigation

I think the situation is pretty clear. At the present time there is no critical mass of support for the project. The engine needs a lot of work which would be time consuming and expensive. When finished there are too many similar engines currently working or near working.
For example, in America there is the T1 effort.It is a new build and an expensive one. But there are no other T1 in existence and it is the long time dream of many enthusiasts to have one in the flesh. Will this be enough to get it done? Unknown and despite progress being shown
the remaining work is going to be even more expensive than what is now done. It is a long way to the finish line for GSN or the T1.

 

There is always hope,, isn't that what preservation is born from, I thing that the GSN team need to really find an established railway, with a firm base of support, Its going to be a very long term project, and one thats going to need long term support, and its going to have to be somewhere that is prepared to support the group for the whole duration, not just short term, I would love to see my old line the MHR, offer them a home, and support, for one it would build up their base, second, they have the experience, short term ,its still about stripping the engine, down to bare frames, and turning it into a kit of parts, then building it all back up, the biggest problem is space, even if short term its just shunted into the headshunt, and tarped over, until space becomes availible, and in the meanwhile, funds can get raised, the missing drive set assembled, a tender frame and top built , then, once funds and space are ready, then the frames can be released from the wheels, and overhauled, boiler brought into the boiler shop and work started on that, and publicize it, play on the two MN,s theme, one as built, one as rebuilt,

 

Two issues with that plan Martin,
1. The MHR has no space
2. The MHR are being very careful about when they use 35005, so it’s unlikely they would want a second MN, even if that was many years away

I’m not sure that Yeovil is the answer either.
The group needs somewhere with a good engineering workshop and skills, and with a decent length of line to eventually run a big loco.

 

I think what they really need is a fundraising operation that can run to at least ten times more per year than they are currently raising. Not only might that speed up the project, but it might also open up more possibilities of railways willing to consider hosting the project. At the moment, no railway in its right mind is going to be keen to have to find space for 150 tons of unrestored metal and a group that hasn't yet demonstrated that it has a realistic plan of how to turn that into restored metal in a viable timescale.

Tom

 

Morning Star, the S&DRT 9F is currently in some sort of industrial unit

The last thing GSN needs at the moment is a line, I suggest it needs to be undercover with a workshop. That could be anywhere.

 

You say the MHR has no space, My answer is, if they were to take a long term view, space could become available, 34105, for example, might not stay, and at some point 80150 will vacate the headshunt for the workshop, just storing the engine, I think could be done, what's important is to secure the long term future, A ten year program should see 35011, or should I say 21c011, replace 35005, and then there is the value of an engine not seen since the entire class was rebuilt, and A one off, that if done right should make it a good potential attraction,

 

34105 can only move once the legal issues are resolved. That could take years or decades.
80150 might well head to the workshop relatively soon but then 41312 will be coming out of service and take the space in the siding, so there's no extra space.

I think you overestimate the value of seeing an original MN - to the GBP it's just another steam engine; to those with a little more interest it's another Spam Can; and only to a small number of enthusiasts would it actually be a significant sight.

 

All true, yet the gap is a significant one and there is genuine historical value in closing it. Whether that justifies the cost of this project is an entirely separate question.

 

I doubt if it would be an attractive proposition for most heritage lines, a MN is a big engine and a lot of coal goes into the firebox just to get tit in steam. Their best chance is probably to go into partnership with another organisation as I think the intention was to go mainline with it , I don’t know if SLL would be interested, they do have the expertise and facilities.
If they want to restore it to original condition it might be worth trying to do a deal with the owners of Port Line to swap the rear truck as 35011 has the only surviving fabricated version fitted to the last ten engines.

 

If steam locomotive restoration was only justified on cost we would be very much poorer for motive power now as you could discount all the ex Barry engines and a few more besides

 

This SLL shareholder joined via the project to restore 35022 to unrebuilt condition. SLL sold 35022 some 20-odd years ago; as I recall because the odds of success were too low.

 

I agree. But ultimately whether any of the projects we value are worthwhile depends on being able to get enough people to part with enough time, effort and money to deliver them.

 

The expertise of Sellinge + Herston would add much incentive for more fundraising and volunteering IMO although as a regular follower of the videos produced from Sellinge showing the dismantling and tidying up of 34010 / 35025 and 34058, they need an injection of volunteering youth. I also love following the videos from Bo'ness workshop currently piecing together D49 Morayshire and similarly, the engineering workforce do extremely well given their own 'heritage'. So easily overlooked when I'm here sat at my keyboard waiting for the next returning scrapyard relic to a nearby gala!

 

I'm always reluctant when these conversations come up to suggest that group [X] take it on - SLL have a lot of plates to keep spinning, despite the fact they're clearly an organisation that absolutely have their ducks in a row. BUT if it were to end up at Sellindge, that's not a bad outcome - they'd be in the vicinity of other groups with equipment and expertise to potentially share, in a location where there's seemingly little pressure of space and time, and relatively close to the current location. Even if there were no formal tie-up with SLL, that would be a site worth considering.

 

And the signs are not good that many people want to see this project happen. I have to be honest, I cannot see the point.

 

Exactly what was said about 71000

 

Regardless of all other considerations, as an organisation it is not generating anything like enough revenue to fund this sort of project. Have a look at the returns on the Companies House website.

 

I'm not sure though, if SLL can take on a project of this size, even as a part owner, I would have hoped that people might have been a bit more open minded, we can't see the tress for the wood, or is it the other way round, but i'm sure you get what i'm saying, I feel that whilst no ones down playing the complexity of this, I think that whilst for the average visitor, its just another steam engine, but the same could be said of any engine, Historically though, I think it has merit, I'm very surprised that the HLF attempt failed, perhaps they didn't word it right, thats why it really has to be a railway thats behind them , and wants to see it done, and I disagree that an MN is too big, anything bigger than say an ivatt 2, some might say is too big, but if it puts bums on seats, then a large engine working well with in its self shouldnt use that more coal, than a smaller engine being worked hard.

 

The big difference is that 71000 was unique. There are another 10 Merchant Navies beside 35011 of which 5 remain unrestored.
Ray.