Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

There has been some discussion on the friend page asking why the railway can't get back into the heart of Lynton. Both Tobbs and myself have explained about the costs involved, but I do wonder if this is out of pure frustration about a lack of an extension plan to the railway.

Looking at various threads on FB, it is clear there are more than a few Lyntonians who would like nothing more than to see the railway get closer to the town itself somehow. After all, it was one of the original aims from years back.

That said, of course, what will be needed is a full survey of the line from Woody Bay, North to Lynton, just because the trackbed is clear, does not mean that it can be used straight away, 90 years of little or no maintenance could throw up all sorts of civil engineering issues which may not be apparent right now.

Also, since that was published, other trains of thought have come to light, not least the ruling of the ENPA. And it is my understanding that the A39 Bridge north of Caffyns is no more, having been removed to realign the road itself. I suspect that this will need to be replaced with a rail-over-road bridge at this location due to the gradients and required clearances involved with the railway itself.

As a very rough guess, I would think we would be looking at, at least 3 new bridges and maybe a short viaduct, the laughable bit is it says please don't walk along any of this trackbed as it is not owned by the trust.

If this were to become a serious option, then I hope they look at what the Bala Lake railway had to put together for their local council to get approval.

 

It wasn't "reposted now". Michael W found it on the website and posted a link to the page on Facebook.
As others have said (quoting me on Facebook), these pages were basically copy and pasted from the old website. They were only linked from the "Walking the Route" page, so had been overlooked. The pages have now had a quick update to try to remove the out-of-date bits, and avoid confusion during the upcoming members consultation.
I will try to find a better place for links to pages like those.
Thanks
Rob

 

Thanks Rob.

It came across initially as a new posting from 'lynton rail' and given the current round of discussions about extension options, I thought that it was 'new'. Sorry if I've inadvertently set a hare running there, but at least it's turned up another glitch - tho' I'm sure you have enough to deal with already

 

I don't quite get the "not a massive drain on time (with a young family)". Is an entertainment a drain on time, or does it add value to leisure time?
As it is, there isn't enough L&B. There's not enough to make the journey worthwhile, unless you already happen to be west of the M5.
The railway has a splendid , authentic train, but it doesn't have enough run- no sooner has the train started, with all the fanfare of flags and whistles, and rattling over switches and crossings, just as it ought to pick up its feet for a couple of miles run to the next station, it is stopping. It is not satisfying for the enthusiast, it is mystifying for the non-enthusiast. It falls short of delivering what it promises.
The "optimum length length of a heritage railway" is not one that can be answered in miles. 'Optimum journey duration' is more what needs to be evaluated, as that is affected by factors such as scenery, gradient (and hence noise/performance), size and type of motive power. MY ideal, is that a journey should be between 1/2 hour and an hour each way, should have some 1/80 gradient , and at least one stop on route. It just makes for a better performance. And something slightly interesting at the far end. Interesting/pretty enough to occupy a bit of time if you want, but not a heartbreak if you can't.
The W&L experience is what the L&B needs to emulate- maybe not the loco performance- but journey time, scenery, interest, uniqueness etc. Though I've yet to find anything of interest at Raven Square. Mind you, last time we got there only to be told that we were in fact on the last train, possibly forever, which was.....unparalleled.
When my kids were kids, the Launceston Railway seemed to have cracked it. There was a museum of somewhat interesting old stuff, an attractive station, quarry hunslet making a lot of itself, carriages that aren't like being on a bus, and at the end, a field with trampolines for kids to hoon about and give mum an hour off. There may have been ice-cream. Whole event took up half a day, which did not overtax people's boredom threshold-especially with a bit of exercise on the middle. IIRC, it was a rover ticket, so more rides could be had if wanted, which I will argue is a brilliant thing. Most people won't use more than one trip, but if one kiddie (and Dad) would rather ride back and forth than bounce on trampolines, there's no wrangle about finance.

 

I can sympathise with the view about the the L&BR. Meaning no disrespect to North Devon, but IMHO it is rather out on a limb and may need a 'special effort' to go there. In the days when I occasionally had to go to Plymouth , I could 'drop in' at Bishops Lydeard or Buckfastleigh while 'on the way' - one can't really do that with the L&BR.
As regards longer journeys though, I think things can go to the other extreme. Having been a WSR member and volunteer since the earliest days, I used to like nothing better than taking the odd day out to drive to (usually ) Blue Anchor and then a ride on the train, before a drive home and dinner in a pub on the way back. Although I would do the whole line round trip about once a year, generally I avoided it simple because of the sheer length of time for the return trip and the lay-over time at Bishops Lydeard, especially in the 'off' season when there used to be little or nothing to do/see there - so admittedly the layover was quite short. Goodness knows what the cost is now for 2 or 4 or more people.

 

In defence of Raven Square, it now has a display shed with out of use locos viewable, the Raven pub is next door and Welshpool town is about a 10 minute walk away so probably beats anything the L&B will ever have (unless it gets to Barnstaple).

As a rail enthusiast with young family, the best railways are those that you can get on and off when they’re bored, hungry etc. The length of line isn’t necessarily important. Lines like the Avon Valley, Pontypool and Blaenavon, Severn Valley offer this and are therefore frequently visited by us.

As it stands, the L&B is probably too far out of the way for most people and while it travels through attractive scenery, it’s nothing amazing. The attraction of a longer L&B for me would be travelling on a historic English NG line. The attraction for my family would be pretty minimal. An ice cream at Woody bay perhaps which of course they can have with the current length line.

The farm park adjacent to the Launceston railway has now closed unfortunately. There is therefore nothing to do other than get back on the train.

 

I think we are getting very close to looking at the L&BR in two lights, one as enthusiasts and the other from a family entertainment angle. I know others will disagree with me on this, but if the enthusiast market paid the same amount of money that, say, another railway received from the family market, then having and running a replica as it was back in the 1920s would not be a problem.

Many years ago, the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway was subject to a South West tourist study, and it was reported that the way to market the fledgling railway was as a linear theme park ride. As I recall, it said something about the railway should try to work with other local visitor attractions near each station, so passengers had the option of getting out at the various stations to stretch their legs and have a break.

Somewhere in the report, I think it said something to the effect of having a rover-style ticket that lasted a week, but it also gave, say, 10% off the entrance fee to each of those other attractions that cooperated with the railway. I don't recall anything about how you were supposed to work out how you went about working out the cost for each ticket for this to happen. But I don't recall this ever going forward or being taken up at the time.

A few years ago, it was said that if it was sunny, the railway would have a quiet day, whereas if it was slightly overcast, then you could expect the railway to be very busy.

Now, being an out-and-out L&BR enthusiast, sure, I want to see all of the line reopened, but at the same time, I know that this may never happen if it becomes too expensive for people to come and have a ride on the line. In theory, the longer the line, the cheaper it should be to operate on a per-mile basis, but I don't know of a railway that operates on that basis.

There has to be a balance between what is available ride-wise and what can be afforded length-wise. Many railways operate so that a child under 10 travels free if accompanied by a fare-paying adult.

 

The price you can charge per mile tends to drop the longer the railway gets, but the costs overall tend to go up, and even though the cost per mile of a longer line might be less (there being more miles over which to divide said cost) it doesn’t generally seem to follow that the surplus per mile is greater on longer lines than shorter ones.

 

Hi Peter, what came to mind was the old little trains of Wales runabout ticket. I don't think it paid for any one railway ticket, but I think it was more of a discount card.

I know this was years ago, but when my family went to Wales to discover all the NG railways. I know that on the FR at the time we had to hand over this ticket and we got a discount on a 3rd class seat. But Mum wanted to go 1st class observation style, so what we saved on the ticket we spent on the upgrade to 1st class observation coach No 100.

 

I think that something like that did happen at one time. I have a vague recollection of being at WB one day and noting that the discount process only worked one way - eg if you bought a train ticket you got a discount at other attractions, but if you bought a ticket at another attraction you did not get a discount at the railway. But it may have been the other way around - it's so long ago! Also I think there was a short time limit, such that you could not ride the train one month and then come back a month or so later and use the discount elsewhere.

 

I am sure it only lasted a week at the most

 

And as I found out only the other day, holders of WSR ID cards get a generous 75% discount.