North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

How profitable are the station pubs at Sheffield Park and Porthmadog, and how much investment did they need to get them going?

 

For Sheffield Park at least, I don't think it is easy to give an exact profitability of the Bessemer Arms in isolation just from published information.

However, the annual accounts do include a lengthy management information section which shows that the catering department as a whole made a profit of £209k on a turnover of £1.293m. Those figures include, in the costs, the salaries and other costs of staff in that department, "power light and heat", "property repairs and maintenance" etc, so I think represent a fair reflection of the profitability of catering - it isn't a case of "oh its profitable, but only because we've hidden lots of costs elsewhere".

The difficulty in analysing further is essentially that it is a departmental budget, not a "facility" budget. So money made on dining trains is included in that figure (and, by a quirk of how the accounts are set out, although there are separate lines for "Buffet" and "on-train catering", I believe that the Golden Arrow income is recognised under "Buffet", not "on-train", I think because much of the food is prepared on land). Again, that probably makes sense, but means the Bessemer Arms is doing more than just acting as a pub / restaurant; it is also the hub of other catering operations around the railway.

Tom

 

Also, what was spent to get those establishments running needs to be adjusted for inflation and viability measured against projected demand now rather than then.

 

That last paragraph of yours really makes me think you don’t have a clue,

 

It’s really not as simple as that though is it? As someone who works in hospitality in a city with a very transient population it’s a bloody difficult job, add in things like trust, honesty, reliability and just general getting the job done is chuffing difficult.
I’d also throw in reputation which one of my old teachers said ‘takes years to build and seconds to lose’


And in one of my previous jobs how’s about counting on someone doing a runner with the takings from the previous night?

Seriously if you think that just opening a pub or hotel in Pickering is going to sort out the problems at the NYMR then seriously bloody think again. It really does open up another can of worms.
Matt (full time bar manager across 2 sites with sodding sore feet atm, but back again in a few hours time because it’s oh so easy)

 

I’m no expert on running pubs, but having run a railway I can say that they are about the most complex organisation there is already, and adding a hotel on to that would fill me with alarm!

 

To all contributors to this thread, this student’s research is very pertinent to the current travails of the NYMR - please assist him here …..
https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/msc-student-needs-help-with-research.1425144/
@Daniel Byrne

 

All very good points and I'd have expected the review to have invited discussion from a broad number of existing and potential stakeholders, but that isn't the NYMR way as many of us have discovered. For the record, I see Mulberries being developed as a micropub along the lines of the Grosmont Crossing Club and the Station Hotel as volunteer accommodation on first floor and some form of franchised food and drink offer on the ground floor. Unlike the exopensive and sanitised platform cafe refurb, I see much of the necessary work to be within volunteer scope. But that isn't the NYMR way either methinks.

 

The NYMR is in a strong position and has the luxury of choice and flexibility after acquiring the hotel.
A chance to sort out catering? I've always thought the new cafe looks like a fake interior you could find anywhere. It also feels cramped, with little room for the workers. The older tearoom style was more authentic.

 

So what are you going to take the volunteer labour from?
Do you have volunteer building control people, architects, structural engineers, joiners, catering installers to hand?
Whos going to run your micropub?
What franchise is going to want the catering outlet? What terms will they want?

 

We’ve recently had a to pay an architect for a project we want to do, we’ve also had a quote from a builder to do the job envisaged and friendly and supportive as they’ve been they still have roof’s over their heads to maintain and mouth’s to feed, so they’ve not been exactly cheap.

Again I suggest that some of these suggestions about various properties at the NYMR do a bit of basic research before posting. I can’t reiterate how difficult it is in hospitality at the moment.

It really isn’t a case of ‘open establishment and they will come = overnight success’ to do something and do it well you have to grow and nuture it.

Funnily enough I’ve had two Real Ale Tw*T’s come in work yesterday and tell us exactly where we’re going wrong yet neither of them have worked behind a bar…

 

Totally agree!

Another key issue with hospitality is that as soon as a passenger arriving at Pickering leaves the station premises they are faced with multiple choices for food and beverage in close proximity eg “Bothams of Whitby” teashop virtually opposite the main entrance, fish and chip restaurant and takeaway, pubs, teashops and Costa all within a 5 minutes walk. If the Station Hotel was such a gold mine then why did it close and be sold in the first instance?

 

That's where railways like the Bluebell differ, the Bessemer Arms doesn't have that immediate competition, so as long as it serves good food and drinks at a competitive price why would anyone bother to spend the effort to go elsewhere


Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

 

Unlike some, I can’t see the station hotel being reopened as a pub/ hotel. My thoughts are basically as volunteer accommodation with the possibility of it also becoming the Pickering equivalent of Grosmont’s Crossing club, a private member club essentially (but not exclusively) run by railway volunteers. No doubt John Bailey will come on here and say that a survey has shown there is no demand but I’m fairly confident that a good offering would see it well used, both for accommodation and as a social meeting place, especially if it was not managed by the railway, which has a poor track record of running catering outlets at Pickering, Mulberries and the poor station buffet being prime examples.

 

Thank you Sheff, really appreciate it! -Dan

 

FYO

There is now a 3-stop ticket eg Pickering to Grosmont available at £35 pp

 

At last!

Good to note the diesel gala sales were 10% higher than expected.

 

A full line day rover including Whitby is £34.65

 

Depends what they sell you when you ask for 3 stop (surely really 4 stop) ticket.
Ageism of sorts giving a discounted rover when us old folks are likely to avoid travelling. Although perfectly understandable from a commercial sense.
Now makes the rover only £2.15 more than the Swanage rover (if purchased on the day) and if you only do Pickering to Grosmont I reckon you can get 3 return trips. So 66 mile at Swanage ( 6 returns is the max) against 108 miles at the NYMR. Good deal for those that just want haulage miles.

 

To be honest, I have to no idea what you are on about.

Buy a full line including Whitby rover online, without gift aid, it's £34.65. Why would anybody go and ask for a £35 3/4 stop ticket? Better still, buy a gift aid and get a voucher back to go buy a tea and cake, net price of travel £32.50.