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6024 King Edward 1

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Champion Lodge, Sep 16, 2024.

  1. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Has it not just been in the corner at Crewe gathering dust?
     
  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Someone else can give chapter and verse, but the loco was bought by LSL off the original society around 2012ish?, but society people continued to overhaul it at Minehead funded by LSL until it first steamed a couple of years ago. Since then, it vanished into Crewe.
     
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  3. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    December 2010 according to this.... https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/6024-king-edward-i/ I must confess I wasn't aware quite how much of the overhaul works had been done at Rileys
     
  4. jsm8b

    jsm8b Part of the furniture

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    It makes an appearance on today's Green Signals, with a large gap where you'd expect to see a boiler and wheels out, a work in progress I guess.
     
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  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it is worth reflecting on some of the early aquisitions such as 6024 . 5029 was also acquired quite early . At the time there was no Crewe , No LSL , no saphos trains so in theory have a supporting group who knew the loco's fairly well and could assist with operation and maintenance probably more than fitted the bill

    5029 had a very active support crew , with it operating from Tyseley , however when it went to Crewe following premature withdrawal that seemed to be the end of their involvement .

    in relation to 6024
    What follows is from the society accounts so on public record
    "In the face of an uncertain financial future and the difficulty in raising funds for the next overhaul, the Society successfully concluded negotiations during the year to sell its principal assets in the form of the locomotive and support coach to a like-minded charity the Royal Scot Locomotive and General Trust (RSLGT). At the same time an Agreement was reached with the Trust to place locomotive and coach back in the custody of the Society for the purpose of management, operation maintenance and overhaul.The overhaul of 6024 was commenced by the supporting group at Minehead "

    "Brought forward and arising fund surpluses will be used to match fund the forthcoming excess overhaul cost over £500,000 under the terms of the Management Agreement."

    Clearly an agreement that worked for both parties . The society could overhaul the engine and continue to be the custodians and day to day operators of the engine whilst it was secure in a new Trust with solid financial backing.

    by 2017 and with the overhaul the following is in the trusts accounts
    "Income is derived from membership and management fees for the upkeep of the locomotive and is used to maintain and train the support crew, publications and circulars to Members and governance costs running the Society. Brought forward and arising fund surpluses will be used to fund the forthcoming excess overhaul cost over £750,000 under the revised terms of the Management Agreement."
    I think this means that the society provided funding for costs over £750k arising from the overhaul. Not unsurprisingly with an overhaul costs have risen considerably as the scale and scope of work expanded

    up until the last filed accounts in 2022 the tone is similar . then no accounts filed for 2023 but liquidator appointed . Society had a positive cash position at the time

    Whilst nothing has ever been said from either side and nor would you expect it to be there clearly has been a fundamental breakdown between the parties

    over the time as well we have seen the engines under RSLGT / LSL control move to an in house operation which is entirely to be expected with control reverting to LSL and RSLGT to the point where 71000 and 60007 whilst not in ownership are operated fully by LSL .
     
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  6. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Should the legal case that occurred be mentioned?
    Really not trying to stir things up but didn’t that have a massive implication to how things are?
     
  7. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    The legal case and the settlement is seen as the causal factor to the loco being sold by the society . Having read the annual reports reference is made to insufficient funding to undertake the overhaul so something would have needed to happen anyway and who knows but it may have been the case that a transfer to the RSLGT would have been to solution to secure the engines future.

    The salutory lesson of the legal case of course is what is written can have profound implications and those advocating to have the freedom to say what they want in word or writing , here is an example that those on the receiving end can have legal address and there is a massive cost to that. The other learning for any owning group, that in agreeing to indemnify the society officer whose words were the cause , the society put their prime asset and reason for being at risk.
     
  8. Steve

    Steve Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Am I right in thinking that the loco had new outside cylinders slightly smaller to make it more gauge friendly? It’s in my memory that @Aberdare told me that when showing me round Minehead works during the overhaul. Could cave dreamed it all, though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2025
  9. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    I'm sure you are correct, Steve. I recall reading a statement (presumably from LSL) that the plan was for 6024 to be as gauge-friendly as a Merchant Navy.
     
  10. Hemerdon

    Hemerdon Member Friend

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    Didn't they also shave a little off the ends of the front buffer beam, again to make it more gauge friendly?
     
  11. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    My memory is also somewhat vague so apologies if I have this wrong or am missing something obvious ....... but didn't 6024 pass it's boiler steam test at Minehead where the overhaul was presented as complete?
     
  12. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    The test steaming video's shows some work remained . It was running as a gentlemans sporting engine (no cab roof) and I can't tell if all the tpws, otmr etc was fitted
     
  13. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    Did the boiler receive it's certification whilst at Minehead though?

    Edit : Video taken at Minehead 22nd September 2022
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2025
  14. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Massive pinch of salt required as it's a Rail Advent article, but they said it had its steam test on 5th November 2019.

    https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2019/11/steam-locomotive-6024-king-edward-i-passes-hydraulic-test.html

    The boiler was returned to Minehead in January 2020, but didn't move under its own power for another couple of years.
     
  15. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Clearly, though Crewe have decided that the engine needs further attention, which has in effect meant stripping the engine down to a set of frames, boiler off, wheels out, thats quite major work, I wonder, when the engine was stripped for overhaul, were the frames checked for alignment ? has Crewe found evidence of past repairs, that's not been done right, normally, you don't strip a newly overhauled engine back down to its frames, for wheel set, or bearing work, or lift off the boiler,
     
  16. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Information from previous posts indicates that the boiler is 6 years into its 7 year mainline ticket. I would think it is advisable to give the loco bottom half a onceover even though it has hardly turned a wheel. One little bit of corrosion or, even muck, could cause damage later.
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I never realised that the boiler life had already nearly gone, I was mistakenly under the impression, it had only just passed its boiler test, that would certainly change the dynamic will that mean new tube having to be cut out and scrapped , and replaced for a new 7 year ticket?
     
  18. keith6233

    keith6233 Member

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    From what I remember the paperwork was incomplete for some of the work done.
     
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  19. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Here is a screen capture from the video. 6024 is back down to the frames again:
    upload_2025-8-15_13-21-54.png
     
  20. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    One wonders why this wasn't picked up when the invoices were being paid for the work being completed?
     
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