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GCR Black 5 No 45491

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Flying Phil, Aug 16, 2021.

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  1. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    There is a difference though as Boscastle was the first Main Line locomotive to be put on the preserved GCR in 1973, so it was a big demonstration of faith that the GCR itself did have a future. True it did then take 34039 another 20 years to steam and haul trains on the GCR.
    I was surprised to read about 45491 though, but 45305 is now firmly under the 5305 association's ownership so we do have a Black 5 on the GCR.
     
    Flying Phil, Jul 27, 2025
    #81
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  2. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Bit of grandstanding and dirty washing in the Steam Beano this month. Its very likely to be scrapped says the owner...
     
    Maunsell man, Aug 13, 2025
    #82
  3. Hicks19862

    Hicks19862 Member

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    Shocking how in this day and age politics can lead to a virtually complete locomotive being scrapped
     
    Hicks19862, Aug 13, 2025
    #83
  4. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    Reading between the lines, I'd say he made a bad enemy at some point and this is payback.
    Pat
     
    Dunfanaghy Road, Aug 13, 2025
    #84
  5. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    When the engine was at Butterley I did have a number of conversations with the loco's owner . Restoring the engine was something he wanted to do and to do it his way . It wasn't about steaming and operating it , just the challenge of rebuilding it . At the time old oil tanks were being recovered to provide plate to rebuild the tender
    He came across as polite and it was a nice conversation but his approach was not what most of us would expect .

    we are 30 years on and the engine has made progress but hasn't steamed . depending on how you read the reports it may be imminent , it could be another decade but either way, the presumption is relations have broken down . Having invested so much to get this far to cash in for scrap feels a very sorry turn of events but then again there is precedence with 42859 and parts of that and it the owners perogative as to what they chose to do
     
    Sidmouth, Aug 13, 2025
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  6. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    DSC04598.JPG

    Just to confirm this locomotive is still in the shed at Loughborough, up alongside Boscastle.
     
    Flying Phil, Aug 18, 2025
    #86
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  7. paul372

    paul372 New Member

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    Can anyone really see this loco broken up after all the work done on it? Especially when Riley or West Coast would possibly see it as an ideal loco?
     
    paul372, Aug 18, 2025
    #87
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  8. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    WCRC already have three Black 5s - one working but unusable on the mainline, one stored, and one slowly being put back together after being dismantled into a million pieces. Not sure they'd be after another one.
     
    5944, Aug 18, 2025
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  9. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    I'd imagine that with any of the main line operators, there would be quite some interest in taking on another Black 5. They might be limited to 60mph, but there isn't much that they cannot do.
     
    bristolian, Aug 18, 2025
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  10. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest:
    What kind of limit is these 60mph.

    Railway or locomotive?
     
    Hermod, Aug 18, 2025
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  11. bristolian

    bristolian Member

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    Due to their 6' driving wheels they are limited to 60mph on the main line.
     
    bristolian, Aug 18, 2025
    #91
  12. Hermod

    Hermod Well-Known Member

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    Are Blue Peter,DoG and Britania limit 62mph uphill and downhill and when were such ruling put up in Britain?
     
    Hermod, Aug 18, 2025
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  13. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    AIUI 6ft 0in is the top of the 60mph band, so 6ft 2in are allowed up to 75. I don't know when these limits came in, but certainly after the end of regular steam services.
     
    Jimc, Aug 18, 2025
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  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The limiting speed of steam locomotives is defined in Railway Industry Standard (RIS) 4472. For a Black 5 it is actually 65mph. Owners may limit their locos to a lesser speed.

    upload_2025-8-18_23-12-48.png
     
    Steve, Aug 18, 2025
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  15. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

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    In the case of Riley's, while we know Ian is a big fan of a Black 5, he already owns 44871 and 45407, has 45212 under an operational agreement with KWVR and is due for overhaul soon and has an agreement to help restore and eventually run 45163, so I'm not sure if he'll have capacity to take another one on or not.
     
    Dan Hill, Aug 19, 2025
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  16. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    Is "4472" coincidence or a little in-joke?
     
    The Green Howards, Aug 19, 2025
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  17. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don’t know but the other RSSB document relevant to heritage stock running on the network is RIS 3440. Does that answer your question? :)
     
    Steve, Aug 19, 2025
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  18. clinker

    clinker Member

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    Many years ago one of My neighbours had the phone number 60103 (later becoming 760103) and He was a Stratford driver, another friend has a mobile that ends in 4472
     
    clinker, Aug 19, 2025
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  19. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I thought that Class 8 locos with 80" drivers were 75 mph. Is that not now the case?
     
    Enterprise, Aug 19, 2025
    #99
  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    The big wheeled pacifics are now 80 mph rated, as per the table. Others are still generally 75 mph. However it is not as simple as just wheel diameter. Pre 2023 speeds may also still apply as owners of locos originally certified for a lower speed need to seek an independent assessment to increase the speed to the new limit. Age of design also comes into it, which is why 2999 and 60103 are 70 mph rated. You really need to read RIS 4472 to fully understand all the ins and outs of it.
     
    Steve, Aug 19, 2025
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