The Mayflower - 6/09/25

It's my first and probably last steam charter this year for all the reasons you have given up

 

For anyone planning on seeing or photographing the return tour(s), note that high tide at Dawlish Warren is at 18:47. The Castle/Jubilee pass at 17:37, the Saphos tour at 17:57.

Not perfect but could be very nice. <BJ>

 

I believe that there is a clearance restriction through Teignmouth station and also the iron bridge at Marsh Mills over the River Plm which is ideal as it really does mean that, by the top, they are being ragged and sound spectacular!

Loadings are down due to the Jubilee. Last year when 7029 ran alone the tour was full booked and when 7029 and 5043 ran together the tour was fully booked once again. This year with 7029 and the LMS Jubilee the bookings are down and I still maintain that it's due to Bahamas being on the train. Steam enthusiasts, like myself, like the right loco on the right route and Bahamas is not that loco.

The really simple way to look at this is like this:
7029 = loco loaded right up being thrashed sounding fantastic
7029 & 5043 double headed = two of the UK's best locos working together putting on a stunning show
7029 & Bahamas = Clun Castle looking good but having it's work taken away by 'another loco' reducing the show and taking the edge of the tour in my opinion. To me (a GWR fan through and through) this tour is Clun Castle running and looking fantastic with another loco taking some of the weight of the train reducing her work.

As my Grandad has always told me for the entire 24 years of my life, 'If it's not GWR it's no good because you can't beat the GWR' and I think that that really shows with the loadings.

Just my opinion.

 

This is the sort of rubbish spouted by GWR fans that gives the Western and their followers such a bad name. Why not be grateful that steam is running at all and admire the efforts of those that, against all the odds, make it possible instead of such partisan negativity.

Just my opinion

Peter

 

It looks like the seating plan has now been uploaded to Fare Harbor so if you click the "View Ticket" link in your original order confirmation email you will now see the coach number and table number (coach P for me).

 

To repeat what I said on the VT thread,
Having been on last year's run with the two Castles, I did consider booking this year's. From my personal point of view, the change from the second Castle to the Jubilee would have been a point in favour, but it doesn't make the trip as a whole sufficiently different from last year's to justify the cost and the hassle of getting to one of the pick-up points. (And as it happens other events now would have prevented me from travelling.)

 

I treat them as holidays. I'm sure we all know people who go on holiday to the same place every year, stay in the same hotel, eat at the same restaurant etc. When you find a place you like, you go back to it every year. This is my annual holiday to Plymouth. I liked the holiday last year so I'm doing it again this year.

 

If tour tickets are only purchased by partisan supporters of the railway company/class hauling, then you may be right. But, with a son almost your age, it does occur to me as I get older that the certainties of my youth have by and large softened, as I've learned to listen to and appreciate other points of view.

 

I do - and that whole pattern bemuses me. But it takes all sorts - and neither you nor @MellishR are wrong.

 

One of the two best trips of the year. But from Leeds, with two nights in a Travelodge plus an XC fare, you are talking £500 all in. That will not pass the financial controller! Have a great day.

 

Out of interest how would a GWR loco being swapped out of a Jubilee be a point in favour when, in my opinion at least, it’s a vastly inferior loco?

I do listen too and appreciate other points of view, but I stand by what I say when I say that I believe that the Jubilee is a big cause of the lower loadings this year compared to last year due to it being a much lower grade loco than 7029 or 5043.

 

Can you explain why you think it’s rubbish when it’s simply an opinion? I was always brought up on GWR and in my option nothing else comes close to it.

 

You are mixing opinion and fact, and presenting an opinion about the GWR as if it is fact to then support your hypothesis that the mixed traction is the reason for low loadings.

The "XYZ railway class is best/rest are not a patch" kind of top trumps scoring is rubbish, because it ignores what is in common to emphasise what is different. That you like Castles is entirely reasonable. But that doesn't make Jubilees (or any other class) "rubbish", and the history books are full of evidence for the case that, having done some stuff really, really well, the GWR (and then Western region) got arrogant and lost their way. I don't particularly agree that GWR stands for "Gresley Was Right", but it does capture some uncomfortable truths.

Stop, observe, listen, and see what is good about non-GWR types of steam. You may find you like something else more, or it may just help you appreciate what you do like that bit more.

 

It is a change from last year and a somewhat unusual loco to be running to Plymouth. Also I have had many runs behind Castles and, as far as I can remember, only one behind a Jubilee.
You are entitled to your preferences, but no way is a Jubilee "vastly" inferior. It is a bit smaller and therefore a bit less powerful.
Go easy on your assertions lest you be seen as a troll.

 

I don`t know, ALL this blowing off steam re: GWR etc but still no one has answered the MOST important
question pls which is.... what is actually on the front from Birmingham the 47 or (hoping for) the 37????

 

No one will be able to answer that question for you until Saturday morning when the train pulls into New Street. It is known that the 47 has some electrical issues, Michael Whitehouse mentioned that in his recent post, so they may play it safe and take out the 37. Or they may have enough faith in the 47 to let it lose on its own. We will have to wait and see.

 

You have no personal experience of the old GWR or BR in the days of steam. I saw the Castles, Kings, Coronations, Jubilees, A4s, A3s, Merchants, WCs, BoBs etc. etc., but I would make no claim that any were more worthy than others, despite my early years, up to about age 8, being mainly spent in old GN territory. I was on the Mayflower last year and would be again this year, but I have other commitments.

 

Having experienced both Jubilees and Castles*, and being largely GWR man myself, I’d still take the Jubilee everyday! (*As a fireman on heritage rail, and passenger on the mainline)

But to be honest I highly doubt the slightly unusual combination would put anyone with a true interest in heritage and railways off booking. We are without doubt incredibly lucky to a have the great variety of machines preserved, and several working. We should very much be grateful for what we have. I also think VTs programme goes from strength to strength each year, and again that is something we should praise.

I sense that Mr Smythes comments change with the weather. Last week when the sun shone it was WCRs turn for a bashing, this weeks rain has brought him to the VT thread to educate us on Castle superiority and why the Jubilee doesn’t sell tickets. I suspect when it snows Saphos are in for a whacking!