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Lisbon Funicular Crash

Discussion in 'International Heritage Railways/Tramways' started by Nick C, Sep 4, 2025 at 10:14 AM.

  1. Nick C

    Nick C Well-Known Member

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    Awful news this morning that there's been a crash on the Gloria funicular in Lisbon, with at least 16 dead.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cpqnnllppnpt
     
  2. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    Dreadful tragedy.

    Make that 17 deaths, someone else died in hospital overnight.
     
  3. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    Looking at the pictures, it's probably just as well that it crashed at that bend. Obviously not saying that's a good thing as such, but the likely alternative would have been crashing into the car just below that (with potentially 2 car loads of injured people, plus whatever would have happened in the square directly behind the second car).
     
  4. Nick C

    Nick C Well-Known Member

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    Indeed so. It seems that it was a traditional each-car-counterweights-the-other type funicular, so presumably the cable snapped - the 'why' will of course have to wait for the investigation, along with asking why the brakes didn't hold the car...
     
  5. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    A comment on a YouTube video mentioned that the lower car started for a metre or two, then fell back down again.
    If true, that suggests that the cable snapped.
     
  6. marshall5

    marshall5 Part of the furniture

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    I see the Beeb got it wrong this morning suggesting that the overhead line failed. Isn't the overhead is for signalling purposes only?
    Ray.
     
  7. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    No, it's an unusual system in that the motors are on the cars themselves, not fixed at the top of the incline.
     
  8. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    The beeb felt it necessary to explain what a funicular is :(
     
  9. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    A YouTube video shows the drivers position, and I was surprised to see that he had the usual tramcar controls i.e. electrical controller, air brake and handbrake wheel.

    I would have thought that there would be no controls on board, and that the system would be operated from a central position?
     
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  10. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Hardly surprising - when was the last time a funicular was front page news?
    On this funicular, unusually, the motors are on the cars with no other motors for the cable. Whether the system requires simultaneous traction from both cars or just one at a time (since the descender has gravity in its favour) I didn't notice when I rode it last year. Remote control of this kind've setup’d've been a difficult ask at the time it was designed.

    Since the weight of the two cars is counterbalanced via the cable system (except for any difference in the weight of passengers), the traction motors only need enough power to overcome the weight of the excess passengers and the cable/pulley friction etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2025 at 6:51 PM
  11. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad Member

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    Apparently, not many people know what a funicular is - a sad reflection on the education system. Or is it just that engineering is the poor relation ?

    I looked up [wikipedia] for a brief history of this one, and was surprised to see that it started like as a water balance system and before it was electrified, it was steam powered. Trying to understand how that would have worked had me scratching my head ...
     
  12. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    CNN did not feel the need to explain to their readers what a funicular is.
     
  13. NWRail

    NWRail New Member

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    I'm reminded of a similar incident with Great Orme tramway which is also a funicular line, with the emergency brake disabled, the cable and sole bar came away and caused the cable car to runaway down the hill before crashing in 1932, since then safety procedure has been improved and there's been no further incidents of this kind since.

    They would need to look at the moving parts to find the cause.
     
  14. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    https://news.sky.com/story/cable-snapped-in-deadly-lisbon-funicular-crash-report-finds-13426028

    A report into the deadly Lisbon funicular crash has said the cable linking the two carriages snapped and the brakeman activated the brakes.

    The carriages of the city's iconic Gloria funicular had travelled no more than six metres when they "suddenly lost the balancing force of the connecting cable".

    The vehicle's brakeman immediately "activated the pneumatic brake as well as the manual brake", the report by the Office for the Prevention and Investigation of Aircraft Accidents and Railway Accidents said.

    But the measures "had no effect in reducing the vehicle's speed", as it accelerated and crashed at around 60kmh (37mph), as the disaster unfolded in less than 50 seconds.

    Questions have been asked about the maintenance of the equipment, but the report said that, based on the evidence seen so far, it was up to date.

    A scheduled visual inspection had been carried out on the morning of the accident, but the area where the cable broke "is not visible without dismantling."
     
  15. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    A similar report from CNN, with some extra detail:
    https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/07/europe/lisbon-funicular-crash-cable-snapped-intl

    - the cable could be seen to be frayed.
    - Near the attachment point of the tram
    - The brakes cannot hold the tram without the counter balance of the other.

    This last point seems to be a serious design oversight. I believe that eg in a lift, if the cable fails there are still brake clamps that attach to rails on the side of the shaft.
     
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  16. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    FWiW, I would have expected that in addition to the rope, there would be a manual handbrake and also a failsafe automatic runaway arrestor, both capable of stopping the car.
     
  17. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    It seems to be an ordinary tram, assisted by a cable.
    If the cable breaks, it's an ordinary tram again. On a very steep hill.
     
  18. Aberdare

    Aberdare New Member

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    For those who have not found the link this is the initial report in English from GPIAAF, which is their version of the RAIB.

    https://www.gpiaaf.gov.pt/upload/processos/d054239.pdf

    It explains a lot about how the system works but lacks detail of the automatic braking system.

    Andy.
     
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  19. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    One of the reports said the cable was only half way through its life. Of course that may not mean much these days, some of our radiators only lasted 5 years and the replacements 6 months, all due to the "quality" of Chinese Steel our plumber said.
    I would hope there is some sort of international standard for these cables, but as we know from the copper issue for steam locos, that may not mean much either.
     
  20. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    I once had dealings with a factory that made high quality cables for lifts ( eg for coalmines) and the MD explained to me the different qualities of cables, and related prices. For example a cable for the fishing industry will be much cheaper and more basic than one to drop a cage down an 800m coalmine shaft, without stretching, and delivering the cage to exactly the right spot every time.
    So you get what you pay for. Fraying after half of its normal service life sounds alarming to me.
     

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