North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I think the model you have described is very commercial. They have found a niche and they are working it. OK chucking in the odd gala may keep the enthusiast happy and hopefully make a profit, that one weekend, but what you have described is actually the sort of thing people about the NYMR doing. Whitby is the commercial benefit and I suspect as a Heritage Line they would need more paid staff than most (all?) to deliver that properly. They may have too many paid staff?, no idea.
But I fully agree with @Pete Thornhill , @60044 thinking is from an age gone by never to return.

 

Equally I think there are a few heritage railways that had to take a harder commercial approach to survive and reset the cash flow which have now relaxed that approach when things have got better controlled and now putting more emphasis on the heritage appeal with both operations and restorations. Not uncommon commercial practice to really tighten the belt and then gradually relax it. The key is explaining why you are doing it, keeping people motivated whilst it is going on. It can be done !

 

I think that a commercially well run line is more likely to attract the confidence of donors and grant funders to help with the nice to haves:/heritage stuff. So one feeds the other. I will cite the example of my home railway being able to acquire a GWR engine for example after 40 years following a period of good trading.

 

I probably haven't explained myself very well, but I really don't think you have a clue about what I'm really thinking, and I suspect you are in turn basing your opinions on your own prejudices, which seem to be misguided. The NYMR has been losing money hand over fist in recent years despite the Whitby trains selling well. The problem is that there isn't enough capacity on those that these services and that prices have been increased rather faster than the rate of inflation, making them less attractive, and prices on internal services have gone up similarly. At the same time, in an attempt to reduce the losses, maintenance budgets have been slashed, both for last year and the coming one, so that this winter there is no planned significant relaying work, despite the track being reportedly very poor in places, with more and more temporary speed restrictions creeping in and major work on bridge 42 looming. In suspect that the problems with steam loco availability stem in part at least from those cuts, if a figure of £4000 per loco for materials is true - and I suspect, too that it would not have been increased this year or next. There is increasing dissatisfaction being voiced among the volunteers, that hasn't been helped by the rather disastrous appointments (and then "departures") of two senior managers who really had no experience in the type of role they were appointed to (e.g. one of them was appointed as "Footplate standards manager" with no footplate experience whatsoever, and summarily dismissed many - if not all- of the existing inspectorate from that role.....

I then look at lines like the Bluebell, KWVR, SVR and GWSR, even the SR, for example, that may have gone through hard times but have weathered them and remain strong and unbroken. They seem to be trading still primarily as heritage railways. Why is it that the NYMR cannot do the same? To my mind it's a combination of factors, but for the most part it come down to poor management decisions. We've heard of ambitions for the NYMR to become more of a living museum, which Beamish, for example does very well - but why is it thought that the NYMR can develop along those lines when it cannot maintain, use and exploit its existing heritage assets like its teak carriages - and even if it could, where is even just its plan for developing its "living museum" ethos?

 

Took a day out to the Moors today. I travelled on the 09.20 through to Whitby and the 6 coach train was full with only the odd seat empty and plenty of people standing in the vestibules; this despite being diesel hauled throughout. The first train out of Whitby was also pretty full from what I could see as it passed us. The 12.35 ex Whitby had a reasonable number of passengers on what can sometimes be more of an ECS. I got off at Grosmont for a wander around there and watch 60163 depart before catching the 14.40 back to Pickering. I don't know how well loaded it was as I found a seat in the first coach and settled for that. However, judging by the number of people on the platform at Pickering when it arrived and I got off, it must have had a good number on board.
Motive power wise, steam was a bit thin on the ground with only the two Black 5's available and in use. 63395 was at New Bridge and being loaded onto a low loader that had just brought 78019 to go Darlington. At Grosmont, 80136 was on washout and 29 was dead on shed. 92134 was in the back field, apparently with failed elements and a cracked chimney.
I'm told by a good source that 60163's visit has gone down well and the special days of the last couple of weeks have turned a reasonable profit. Again, I was told 60103's bookings are looking very healthy and stand to return a good profit despite the rumoured cost.

 

From that would assume its unlikely that 92134 will take part in the gala?

 

Well that's mostly good news, and heaven knows they need it. Shame about 92134, though the usual curse of the gala strikes again!.

 

I think they are hoping to borrow some but time is running out.

 

Then there are some like the Bluebell taking the more commercial approach with the family orientated events but keeping the dining options and Christmas activities in house rather that use outside organisations to run them.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

 

Good points. How has the SVR been successful, and the NYMR not so successful? (I understand that you may not want to throw rocks at a heritage operation, but to rectify the problem(s), they have to be identified.)

Noel

 

All valid reasons but taking point 3, which is accurate, but I would suggest more down to circumstance than design.
I would for example be unlikely to bother walking into Kidderminster or Bridgnorth to find food or drink. I may wander down to the riverside pub at Highley, although these days the walk back up may be an issue. Likewise at the Bluebell Sheffield Park which as no competition or East Grinstead which again is an uphill walk, skew the comparisons.
Whitby, Swanage, Minehead to name but three, all have a fair number of competing eating and drinking locations, probably with the number of them combined offering a far greater range of options than those at their applicable railway. Therefore in those locations tend to offer less (or none at all) eateries because of the competition from elsewhere. That of course is before you get to the issue of staffing and what you need to pay to "steal" staff away from working elsewhere.
All a very difficult circle to square.

 

The NYMR hasn't moved with the times. For example, its dining offering, doesn't seem to me to have moved with the times - as far as I can see it's still effectively a pub roast beef Sunday lunch (or chicken/fish variations). I wouldn't be surprised if they still have prawn cocktail starter... People watch a wide variety of cookery shows now and now expect a bit more, imho. As for capitalising on attractions en route, it's so9mething I have mentioned but no-one seems prepared to act on. Cost of providing these (and lack of space for them) would be an issue for some items, but the NYMR is surrounded by history and other items of interest in the form of industry and nature and they could be promoted and people encouraged to investigate more at little or no extra cost. It's a case of making the most of what's available, and as it i8s the surrounding countryside represents nothing more than something to be gazed blankly at from the train windows. It's all characteristic of a complete lack of imagination or ingenuity on the part of those responsible for promoting and marketing the railway, seemingly from the top down.

 

So what does a mainline railtour offer for example as a difference to how you have explained the dining option, or the "nothing to look at but the view" if you are in First or Standard on a mainline tour. They are of course longer days, may offer quicker steam or diesel haulage, but cost way more, but they still seem to sell well.

 

I think (and the hit to the town economy during the severance would seem to bear it out) that while you might be unlikely to walk into Bridgnorth for food an *awful* lot of passengers clearly do. It’s basically an inland holiday resort town, thronged with day trippers. So really the SVR is not operating a park and ride to Bridgnorth in the way the NYMR does to Whitby, but I think you might be in a minority with ‘unlikely to walk into Bridgnorth’ tbh.