North Norfolk Railway General Discussion

In common with several other railways, the NNR has recently switched from underfloor power generation on its dining kitchen car to a separate generator car (in this case a Mark 1 CCT). The latest C&W blog covers its entry into traffic, in the process bringing a fast declining stores van back into the spotlight:

C&W Blog - Generator Car Launch

 

Excellenr work as always. Thank you

 

I shall be very pleased when the NVR finishes its CCT conversion as being in the carriage with the generator in it was never a pleasant experience.

 

Real Eastern Region provenance for Fiftieth Finale - 25 Oct to 2 Nov https://nnrailway.co.uk/two-visitors-50-finale/

 

https://nnrailway.co.uk/stations-gr...yhhI8IgOoBizqQlGaY_aem_LUMj7Zjj306C22eE8OwyVA

Sheringham and Weybourne given Grade 2 listed status.

 

Is this necessarily a good thing?
As I understand it, having listed status can cause more problems if, say, you wish to return a room to its original purpose/appearance, but the listing shows the appearance at the time of listing.
There's also no extra money for listed buildings but you have to do things in accordance with the authority and the materials they determine.

I stand to be corrected!

 

It can involve more bureaucracy in planning terms. But on the flip side it can open up funding opportunities from the lottery and suchlike, and it would effectively prevent any redevelopment of the site if, god forbid, the NNR had to close. It wasn't too long ago the site was under threat as I recall?

 

ISTR that the Bluebell has had problems with that (too busy/lazy to research it).

Noel

 

I think it was 25 years ago that Sheringham station was in danger of being redeveloped

I assume this listing won’t effect the proposal to redevelop platform 2 at Sheringham, as the listed buildings are on platform 1?

 

I think the station area at Horsted Keynes is a “conservation area” (rather than specific individual buildings being listed).

The specific impact some years ago was that the railway wanted to re-signal the station and the initial scheme required more levers than would fit in the frame and there was a suggestion to rebuild the signal box. Thankfully that wasn’t done, and instead a revised signalling scheme came in (with more sophisticated lever minimisation) such that the scheme could be accommodated within the existing length frame.

Without commenting on the specifics of the listing at Sheringham and Weybourne (nor the equivalent listing at Woody Bay on the Lynton and Barnstaple) my general view is that for organisations that are explicitly framed as heritage organisations, listing should be welcomed rather than seen as threatening. If for no other reason, it is an incremental validation of why such railways are worth preserving in the first place - there has to be more to it than just “we like trains”. Listed building status is a form of external validation that “this thing is nationally or locally important”.

Tom

 

I'd also note that Sheringham and Woody Bay have already seen the addition of some modern structures on the site, so the constraints will be a lot less than if there were projects in mind that were now going to have to deal with the extra hassles of a listing.

 

You're wrong there Tom, Horsted Keynes was listed at Grade II in 1997: HORSTED KEYNES RAILWAY STATION, Horsted Keynes - 1257915 | Historic England

You can see the difference though between a modern list description like those announced today, which carefully spell out the significance, and an earlier listing like Horsted Keynes which is much more broad-brush.

 

The impact of listing lies somewhere between these two views.

On the one hand; the idea behind listing is that the day a building is Listed, a general description of it is made and in theory any development that deviates the building from that description is given closer scrutiny at planning stage - think of it as another hoop or two to jump through in the process of going from an architect's pretty concept drawing to having planning permission to go and build said pretty drawing. This can, as Ghost says, throw spanners in the works if you're custodian of a Listed building and you're actively trying to restore it.

But on the other hand what I think is often overlooked is that the planning processes for Listed buildings and Conservation Areas, is framed more around the idea of giving development closer scrutiny rather than definitively holding a building/ area in aspic and saying definitively, 'no more development here, at all'. The French have a system like that and the outcome is generally that whatever is intended to be preserved instead slowly withers.

The drawback as I see it, is that if a development is proposed, the granting of Listed Building Consent is very much down to the opinions of one person - the local Conservation Officer. If they don't like what you have in mind... the fact the someone five miles away in another LA has been granted permission for exactly the same thing is neither here nor there.

 

Yes, Listing brings some protections for the building and responsibilities for the owners. The recommendation is that of Historic England, and is independent of the owner. As a heritage organisation that has been responsible for the care of the stations for the last half-century, the NNR has ensured that many original features have survived. Having listed status is absolutely compatible with our heritage aims - there may be some extra considerations in future but anything that raises the railway’s profile, helps us explain our work and increases the profile so more people visit and contribute to the £4 million annual cost of maintaining 5.5 miles of line, 3 stations, historic locomotives and vintage rolling stock is very welcome.

 

As the person who drew up the initial list of preserved buildings that might warrant listed status for HE, I am very glad to hear that view!

 

In adjacent news. Isn't that the WHS stall that used to stand on platform 2 with a model railway and then a model shop in it? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...y-museum-station-hall-reopens-after-11m-refit

 

Yes