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Shap Mountaineer: 27/09/25

Discuție în 'What's Going On' creată de 1020 Shireman, 23 Sep 2025.

  1. ribble

    ribble Member

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    7029 Clun Castle on Docker Viaduct on 27/9/2025

    David

    DSC_5845copy.jpg
     
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  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I was only critical of the fact that the day was screwed up initially by Network Rail infrastructure, according to @RalphW, but also a decision, not yet explained, to attach the diesel to the train over Ais Gill and this was just one VT decision. Other operational decisions by VT were pretty sensible. Sadly, the one I struggle with is the one that made quite a lot of difference.

    Standing on a mound for a while to take a photo - a decent one in my view - is par for the course. But spending a few hundred pounds to get to a special trip that wasn't as special as it should have been is something else.
     
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  3. AlexGWR1994

    AlexGWR1994 Member

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    Here's my footage of Clun Castle slogging up Shap and roaring up Ais Gill on the Settle and Carlisle Line yesterday. I hope you enjoy it.
     
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  4. LittleRedTrain

    LittleRedTrain Member

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    It would be interesting to know how much this was VT's decision to make and how much was an instruction, or at least a strong suggestion, from NR.

    Given the stop at Settle Jn to detach the 37, with hindsight, it probably didn't save a huge amount of time, but I'm sure it's always a difficult call to make and I doubt VT would want to sacrifice the unassisted steam unless completely avoidable.

    My preference is unassisted steam, but I appreciate I'm not as much as a purist as others on this. I'd still take a day out on VT just behind the loco with the toplights open over anything involving 'coffins'.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree that there seems to be only one decent rake of 'ORR legal' coaches in town that offers the prospect of steam as most would prefer it and that's the VT set. The LSL rake always seems to need a minder for one reason or another. So in that sense VT leads the way and if they can offer some work for Tornado and, into the future, Bahamas there may be light at the end of the tunnel.
     
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Resident of Nat Pres

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    And whilst I understand your frustration to me it seems pretty much like most days on the network, something goes wrong, trains are late and some decisions seem shall we say "strange".
    Any railtour comes with a buyer beware set of conditions attached, many way out of the range of the operator.
    From 400 miles away your lateness did not seem excessive, and of course the TPE was late as usual. Nobody knows I suspect the split between "I want what was billed, even it it means being an hour late" and the "I expect to be back on time at all costs" group.
    I know from experience stewarding that even leaving Carlisle late on a CME around 14:30 with many hours to go passengers are already asking if they are going to be at x, by y time, as they have connections to make.
    I was somewhat gobsmacked at the comment about someone with a 10 minute connection, I would not even trust that little time on a published timetable connection any time and day of the week.
     
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  7. 30567

    30567 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Putting myself in @Big Al shoes I would have been pretty disappointed with my £500 day out and felt it reasonable to express my disappointment. If there simply wasn't a path for the diesel or Clun was not in great shape, then fair enough. As it was, it's difficult to see that leaving the diesel on the back from Carlisle actually gained them any time on the day. However it's all about balancing risks and clearly there was a risk of being stuck at Hellifield behind the Ribblehead to Rochdale stopper, as happened for different reasons on the Bahamas trip.

    We are not privy to the conversations between the operator and Control so we cannot know how it was decided. But for a 25 min delay at 1130 to have that end result is a shame on only the second unassisted trip over Ais Gill this year.

    Here's hoping for a Tornado Shap Mountaineer trip next year. The Blue Riband has not been unduly challenged this year (just looking at Howard Routledge's marvellous book).
     
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  8. Michael Whitehouse

    Michael Whitehouse New Member

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    The reason for diesel assistance over the S&C is simple. Bad coal. The coal 7029 took on at Carnforth did not work out and we really only gained Shap summit due to Sam Ell and Ernie Nuttie's 1950s modifications to Castles improving the front end. The time delays, the need for pax to get their connections and the coal, made it a very simple choice to keep the 37 with us on the way back. That proved the right decision as we were RT back and pax made their connections. Express steam trains a long way from home are more and more difficult
     
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  9. LittleRedTrain

    LittleRedTrain Member

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    Thanks Michael for coming on here to set the record straight.
    Sounds like you were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    There was some suspicion in our coach that Clun was not steaming as well as expected, so that explains it.
     
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  10. GW 5972

    GW 5972 New Member

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    Currently all I seem to see on the network and preserved lines is lots of black smoke and reports of damaged ash pans, indicating that expensive imported coal is not what it should be. All due to our over zealous green agenda?
     
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  11. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    This presumes that 7029 has the typical GW problem that Swindon built locomotives to use South Wales coal hence using any other supply would only add to the operating problems. Sadly it seems that many keyboard warriors are unaware of this problem when criticising operators of GW locomotives hence praise should be given for those who operate locomotives out of their "comfort zones". In that context praise to the footplate crews who achieved an enviable standard of footplate skill despite the problems that lay beyond their control.
     
  12. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Was going to put a report up highlighting the poor performance of 7029 with such a light load until I read Michael's post above about the quality of the coal. Taking that into account there's nothing to comment on other than it would have been good to have been told that on the train. Pity about that as I thought we deserved a cracking day out after our trials and tribulations getting to Crewe. It involved 3 cars; one nearside mirror flying off making the Astra unsafe to drive; then after a 30 mile return home, a blow-out of the Corsa 130's front nearside tyre just outside Monmouth on the A40 after some debris was thrown up by a truck and impossible to avoid; a very quick and efficient recovery Green Flag rescue; then a trundle to Crewe in our underpowered Tipo Estate. We originally left home at 1800 and got to the Premier Inn on Weston Road at 2348!!!

    On reflection I'll revise the report I'd prepared in and and consider the 'Coal Effect'. Got to sort the ailing motors first thing, especially the Corsa.
     
    Last edited: 29 Sep 2025 la 07:56
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  13. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    It's a consequence of the heritage industry being a tiny % of the country's overall requirements for coal, the demand for which has fallen through the floor in the last decade as the national grid and industry has modernised.
    Every now and then someone pops up on here and says we should reopen a mine for steam engines, without realising that without big industry the economics don't exist. Like it or not, Coal is now a premium product for which there is little need now in the UK.
    Variable coal quality has always been an issue, even with UK coal, what has changed is choice and the ability to pre-check - you don't know what you are getting until it turns up.
     
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  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Thank you so much for that Michael. The day just didn't feel like the way that VT does things and now the world knows why. Your helpful message explains quite a lot.

    Despite the enforced layover at Grayrigg because of pathing issues, those of us timing the trip did wonder why Clun was eased along the Lune Valley before tackling Shap. Given this context the slog up to the top was understandable. It must have made the discussions at Upperby quite tricky. Surprised that an on train announcement wasn't made to tell us all why things were going to be the way that they were for Ais Gill. Instead we were told that the delay leaving was down to finalising arrangements with NR over the operational movements en route. It was also a missed opportunity to explain the more serious concern over how the journey might pan out without help. Of course the extra weight didn't help but that's not the point.

    I suppose it was lucky that Tangmere also had its usual helper on the Lune Valley trip if the coal was poor although videos suggest that 'old smokey' wasn't suffering too much.

    So the coal lottery and debate continues.....
     
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That's a rubbish comment at many levels, imo. Rubbish coal that emits black smoke and steams badly is a different issue from friable coal that steams well and quickly but drops through the grate and ruins ash pans.

    Saturday's issue was, as @Michael Whitehouse has explained, the former not the latter and the difference between Tyseley coal and Carnforth coal, it seems.
     
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  16. Victor

    Victor Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Well I enjoyed it, The loco. was certainly doing it's stuff going up Shap.
    Thank you for posting the video.
     
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  17. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    The Shap Mountaineer

    How it ran

    At the start of the day when 37418 pulled the consist into Platform 6 at Crewe we were disappointed to note only 7 carriages, making 8 + the GUV Water Carrier. We had hoped for 9 to make load 11 as to date with this iteration of Vintage Trains we've never had a Castle over the banks with an equivalent load to Scots Guardsman, the ex-LMS Class 7 Double Chimney Royal Scot locomotive. WCR normally run 12 behind 46115 but we have had 11 so would have comparison timings over both Shap and the S&C. Such is life.

    Alan, Big Al, was sharing our timing table. It was Alan's first tour behind a GWR Designed locomotive in the Northern Fells. John and Mary, our friends from Lisvane, were joining us at Preston. Good to see and travel with them again. We were away on time and had an unexciting run to Warrington for our first pick up, then onto Preston where we arrived right time. Nice growling start away from Preston and 37418 rolled into Carnforth U&DGL right time. The loco was released but then we had to wait for 7029+GUV+POB to drop onto the front. Usually happened in minutes.

    Not today as due to a signalling issue and some apparently odd movements that exacerbated the situation, 7029 was delayed some 20 minutes before setting back onto the train. A short time after the brake test Control signalled us out of the loop at 1151, 28 minutes late, into a path that had us only 12 mins ahead of the Euston-Glasgow Pendolino Service. We've travelled long enough to know that would mean we'd be looped at Grayrigg if not before at Oxenholme to let it through.

    With only a Class 4/5 load, 250 tons + PAX on the drawbar, and a Class 7 locomotive, I expected mid 40s over Yealand and close to 70 if not 75 at Milnthorpe. We weren't encouraged by the thick brown smoke that came from 7029's chimney. Love the four cylinder sound of a Castle being worked fairly hard. Didn't translate into power at the rails and all we got at Yealand Summit was 36. Fire should have been bedded in by then and we looked forward to a noisy charge to the start of the long climb to Grayrigg. We hit the 3 miles + of 173r at mp12 3/4 at 63.4 and got a max of 64 at mp13. We passed the site of Milnthorpe Station, mp13 1/2 at 62.2.

    Despite being convinced we'd be looped at Grayrigg, there was still close to 12 miles of climbing to test the capability of 7029 before the expected feathers for the loop on the signal around mp25, a mile from the summit.

    Speed slowly fell to55 at mp16; to 54 on the 3/4m of 153r; then on the 111r to 44.4 at mp18, below Oxenholme Loop, Clun was eased there and speed fell to 35. No feathers so we didn't go into the loop. No real idea what that was all about though a restriction was mentioned. A slow if noisy run through the station, 35.2, one of our slowest, and a fall to 32 on the 104r. On the 3 miles of mostly 131r Clun was noisy getting to 40 max at mp21 1/2, but speed had fallen to 32.4 by Lambrigg on the 106r. We passed mp25 at 30.8 on the 104r and saw the feathers guiding us into the loop. The Glasgow passed us a few minutes later. We'd cost it 12 minutes to schedule. A TPE and Edinburgh passed us while we were looped. We were finally signalled out at 1245 after a 20 minute stop. We were 55 minutes down.

    Not great for the fire being looped but the safety valves lifted just before we left and there was a good 4 miles of downgrades to get speed up for the assault on Shap. With such a light load we expected to get to 60+ but didn't. We passed mp30 1/4, Tebay, at 56 and over the level mile fell back to 54 despite the noise from Clun. The mile and a half of 146r saw speed fall to 50.4 at mp 33, the start of the 4 1/4 miles at a solid 75r to the Climbing Summit at mp37 1/4. Lots of noise but speed fell to 40 at mp35; 30.5 at mp35; 27.7 at mp36. Not good. But Clun held sway over the next mile: quarters speeds were; 27.8; 27.6; 27.4. At mp37 speed fell to 26.9; then through the cutting proper to 26.5 at Mp37 1/4. We passed the plateau summit, mp37 1/2 at 26.2. No doubt our driver had mortgaged the boiler and our fireman did a brilliant job with the fire. Though we did expect mid 30s at the summit even after being looped at Grayrigg as we had such a light load, it had been a good solid climb. We were 57 down.

    Interesting to look at the climb in the knowledge of the 'bad coal' being fed to 7029. The attrition from mp23 to mp37 1/4 was 24 mph. At no time did we lose more than 2 mph in a quarter of a mile. The light load contributed to that, but the coal really can't have been that bad as the hard final 2 miles of 75r only saw a reduction of 1.5 mph.

    We guessed the run on the top was slow as the boiler was filled and our fireman brought the fire around as best he could. Speed was only 50 on the 142f at mp41. Things improved then down the long 125f with miles covered at a bit over 75; but we'd made no time up and rolled into Carlisle Citadel at 1341, 57 down. We were asked to return to the station by 1445 for a hoped for 1509 departure. Optimistic but similar things had been done by WCR many times.

    Alan lunched with us in the 'spoons. Not much to discuss as at that time we thought 7029 wasn't performing anything like a Class 7 with the load we had for reasons unknown. Alan had spoken to Alistair on the station who'd mentioned various restrictions but not 'bad coal'.

    We were back at the station at the time prescribed. A bit later 37418 dragged the train into Platform 1. With an empty station it looked good for a departure around 1500. We ambled over and worryingly 37418 was still coupled up. We rejoined the train and nothing happened for a while. We found out later that we were delayed as unfortunately one of our passengers had a fall and required an Ambulance being called to take him to hospital. Hope he's recovered well.

    Time was passing and we assumed we'd drop into the 'hour late' slot. Fellow passengers told us the light loco move to Hellifield had been cancelled. Ominous. After we were away we were told that the Class 37 was staying on the rear. So that was that for unassisted steam. If we'd been told on the platform what was going to happen on the return we'd have probably caught a service train down to Crewe and got home a lot earlier.

    We finally left at 1527, now 63 down. I wasn't intending timing as I dislike Tyseley's top and tailed trains. I relented a mile past Petteril Jn as speed was only 29 so it sort of it felt like a CME with The Scot and 12. We passed Cumwhinton at 30; mp303 3/4 at 29.8 and then the driver in the box took a hand and we felt the growl and buffering up. We passed Howe & Co SB, just after mp303 at 39. Seemed happy with that and the rest of the climb felt 'genuine' as speed slowly fell to 33.3 at mp300 3/4. The summit is just after the Eden Brows concrete viaduct at mp300 1/4. Didn't see it but speed had fallen to 32.3. Not sure how genuine running was up the 176r/200r where we got to 55. It fell back to 52.4 into to Baron's Wood No. 1 Tunnel, held through No. 2 tunnel.

    Max down the 165f was 62.3 (line speed 60); Lazonby and Kirkoswald was passed at 59.3 then a mile or so after, we passed the old Little Salkeld Station building, 132r, at 55.2. We ran in the high 50s for miles. Up the 330r towards Culgaith speed rose to 61; Long Marton was passed at 62.1 and fell to 52 on the 2 miles of 120r approaching Appleby. We charged through the station at 60. We had taken 42 minutes. Booked time was a surprisingly slow 49 minutes. It's usually 44. So a technical saving of 7 minutes. We held 60 to Ormside and onwards past mp275, the Blue Riband starting point. Seemed genuine steam up the early miles of 100r, though very few trains with any Class 7/8 locomotive with 12 up dive into Helm Tunnel at 48. Suspicions of assistance quite high. Whomever was at the controls of 37418 then took a hand in proceedings and we surged up the 200r through Crosby Garrett at 59.5 and rejoined the 100r at mp268 3/4 at 63.1. Normality returned and we lost almost 5 mph over the next 1/4m.

    We bowled along in the high 50s then, but as we approached Waitby Cutting the brakes came in hard and speed dropped to below 20. Baffling unless it was a very early application for a Platform restriction through Kirkby Stephen. Whatever the reason we crawled through the station at 15.6 and then, hmmm, speed rose at the rate of 6.6/3.3/4.8/3.3 mph per quarter mile. Didn't know a Castle had a turbo charger - but we know a loco that did. We roared into Birkett Tunnel at 43.2 and then over the next mile picked up 5 mph and passed Mallerstang at 54. Speed held for the next 2 miles before falling a bit to 52.4 at mp262, 2 miles from the summit. Then we ran probably steam only as speed fell to 45.8 at mp261 1/2; 41.8 at mp261 1/4; and 39.3 at mp261. Sometimes we get a noisy charge at the run over Ais Gill Viaduct under the road bridge and around the curve to the summit. We enjoyed it and no doubt the photographers did too. We crossed the viaduct at 38.5; mp260 1/4 at 38.8 and passed mp260, the Climbing Summit at 39.5. The plateau summit - no board on the milepost side now - mp269 3/4, was passed at 41.6. Appleby to Ais Gill Summit had taken 23m 15.3s. that would have been a superb run for a Class 7 with 12. We'd made 6 minutes up against the schedule.

    Too much input from 37418 for our liking. As we made our way to Garsdale we had a chat about the climb and concluded the final couple of miles to the summit were unassisted. The smoke from the chimney had noticeably changed to a whiter shade of pale implying the coal picked up at Carnforth had been used up and the fireman had the Tyseley coal to use. If we were right there was nothing wrong with 7029 and it was a shame the decision to leave 37418 coupled had been made.

    Nothing exciting on the run down to Settle itself but things got farcical just after. We stopped before Settle Jn Box to detach 37418. We felt it detach but then inexplicably we sat there for over 10 minutes while no trains went by. We got away and there was a bit of noise as we got to 36 on the 181r but then Clun was shut down and we crawled into the loop at Hellifield and waited for the Class 37 to appear and eventually drop onto the front to haul 7029 and the consist back to Crewe and onto New Street. Our Elapsed time from Carlisle to Hellifield Loop was 2hrs 5mins. Planned 'unassisted steam' elapsed time was booked as 1hr 59s. Sacrificing Unassisted steam from Carlisle over the S&C 'technically' cost us 5 minutes as well as the pleasure we would have got from the proper steam climb to Ais Gill Summit. Not sure if they took water in Hellifield loop but we noticed there was someone in the siding with a hydrant key in his hand as we left.

    Onto the rest of the journey for completeness of sorts. We were always going to have the Class 37 in the consist from Hellifield. After the bizarre Class 37 manoeuvring we did save a stunning 13 minutes at Hellifield. My math after checking RTT was what we'd lose that by getting stuck behind the 1822 Rochdale Flyer from Clitheroe. We left Hellifield Loop 55 down and as expected were held at mp22 before Horrocksford Jn from where the Flyer had been released some time earlier. It stopped at all 3 stations on the bank and we had to wait for it to clear the single line section 'on the top'. After the restart we ran through Clitheroe 59 down. By having the Class 37 on the front we made a mockery of the climb to Wilpshire Summit and despite a 5 mins or so stop on Blackburn Approach, we arrived there only 42 down.

    Our booked time from Blackburn to Crewe, planned on 7029 and 37418 Top and tailing, was inexplicably 2 hours. Do you know how far it is? Blackburn to Farington Jn is 10 1/2 miles; Farington Jn to Crewe is 48 miles so a grand total of 58 1/2 miles. We had a booked set down at Warrington Bank Quay but basically all the locos had to do was run at an average speed of under 30 mph. Seriously?. (FYI there were allowances totalling 16 minutes in the original path). With the Class 37 on the front able to run at 75 mph for mile after mile in a clear path so it only took us 58 minutes. There was little if any sound from 7029 on the run down to Crewe. No need for it to do anything. After a short pause at the gantry just before the station as we had to cross all the running lines and wait for one train to pass going north, we stopped in Platform 12 where we left the train, at 2034, a mere 3 minutes down.

    Even knowing what we do now that the coal wasn't up to spec, the climbs to Grayrigg and Shap weren't that bad. Still not happy with the manner in which the train was run to say the least as VT's decision making robbed us of the greater part of what we'd paid for - 76 of the advertised 139 miles of unassisted steam. Very much a no risk option. After the way 7029 got over Grayrigg and Shap it was unlikely the long drag would have caused us serious problems and possibly Control could have pathed 37418 between us and the 1648 Carlisle-Leeds Service. It was what it was.

    Baffled by posts that said it was a great Railtour and how well 7029 performed. Thought I was on a different train; perhaps in a parallel universe. Didn't notice the shimmer from the Total Perspective Vortex but did have a pint of Sirius Dog Star in the 'spoons in Carlisle. As we all know the Dog Star is close to the Frog Star where the Vortex is usually located; but with temporal displacement being what it is...

    I digress. We were sorry Alan had such a poor day out performance wise with 7029 as his first GWR locomotive over the Northern Fells but I reminded him it was built by BR. Hopefully he'll come out when 5043 has another run up north, next year perhaps, if the tyres can be replaced. Is there a Re-tyring fund we can send donations to Michael?.

    Thanks to everyone at Tyseley and Network Rail involved in running the train. We did have 63 miles of unassisted steam and a few more with an equivalent load 12. Special thanks to the crews who seem to have had a difficult day with the poor coal and keeping Clun moving at a decent pace. No-one on board from VT told us who they were. Also thanks to Ralph and Fred for the information on the signalling issue at Carnforth in the morning. As it was known about, what happened on the day is difficult to excuse.

    One minor thing I'd like to correct is the post 'Nice of Michael to make his way down the train, introducing himself to all of the passengers and checking we were enjoying ourselves'. He didn't come anywhere near our 4+4 in Coach H.

    Sad year again for Mainline Steam. We might have to consider buying posh clothes to travel in the real Pullmans behind the magnificent 35028 Clan Line. Proper steam in the hands of DB.

    Our next train might be the 1st November depending on the final arrangements and timings. Doing it for something to do as one or other of the Class 37s will be a Tailgunner. Not a good way to celebrate the Farewell to Steam lumbering 7029 with that. Such is life.

    After our fraught outward journey on Friday, with fingers crossed we filled the Tipo up at the Esso on the roundabout near the Crewe Arms and set off for home. Thankfully we had a very straightforward return journey. Took just over 2 hours. The Tipo done good.
     
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  18. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Shap Mountaineer 27 September 2025 with 7029 Clun Castle

    [I had written most of this report before @ Michael Whitehouse’s informative post, after reading it, the day’s events made much more sense. I didn’t know if I should bin it, re-write it or complete it. I decided to complete it. With coal unsuited to a Castle, steaming would be a major issue and performance greatly limited; the “sparkle” that I had hoped for on Shap was simply not available. What follows is merely my account of the trip.]

    Checking back through my records I was surprised to find that my last steam run over Shap was on the 16 July 2022 when 46115 took 11 coaches but, because of fire risk, was assisted by 47804. It was way back on the 8th of Feb 2020 when I last had the pleasure of an unassisted run (46115+11). Factor in that this year I hadn’t had a run over the S&C, or a run without diesel accompaniment or indeed any run behind Clun Castle – ever! This trip was a must and promised to tick all the boxes.

    The obvious joining station was Preston, but the return drop-off was at Blackburn (shades of the old CME). Leaving the car at Preston would mean relying on Northern, not the most reliable of operators, to get back to Preston. We could park at Blackburn and catch the train to Preston, this held several advantages: shorter drive, cheaper parking and home sooner. However, there was only one reasonably timed train, the York to Blackpool North, operated by Northern. Checking the operation for the previous few days didn’t inspire me with confidence, but we kept our options open by checking progress on RTT before committing to head to Blackburn or Preston. The train ran immaculately to time, and we arrived in Preston a tad early.

    We waited on platform 4 and within 5 minutes 37814, An Commun Gaidhealach (I shall type this only once), arrived with the train. We were in coach H, “H” for “Henthusiast”, which was directly behind the loco – yes! We had a lengthy stop before we headed north (RT) and past a sizeable crowd of diesel enthusiasts who had gathered near the ends of the platforms. The weather was dry, but overcast, with rain forecast to arrive late afternoon/early evening. We stopped in the loop at Carnforth 2L. Now for the interesting bit, the bit with steam, not just steam, it was to be Clun Castle and no diesel! Would things go to plan?

    As Kevin Keegan might have said, “This turned out to be a game of three halves”.

    The First Half – 7029 Clun Castle hauling GUV, POB + 7

    The diesel came off, and we waited for the steam, we waited and waited, and nothing seemed to be happening, there were no steamy sounds or the reassuring bump as the loco backed on. Service trains passed in both directions. Eventually Clun Castle backed on and 27½L we set off. “A signalling issue”, we were told.

    There was plenty of action from the front as the loco was set to work; the soundtrack was terrific as heavy, dark exhaust spilled back past the open toplights. Acceleration all the way up Yealand bank (1/134r) with 37mph at the summit. Taking full advantage of the next 3½ miles (1 mile 1/293f then level track), we crossed Beela Viaduct, the start of the 13 mile climb to Grayrigg at a very healthy 64. By Milnthorpe this had fallen back to 62 and was still 55 at Hincaster and 55 as we passed Sedgwick, but somehow it felt restrained. The loco was eased, and we continued in the mid-30s as we approached Oxenholme. It appeared that there might be a speed restriction thro’ the platforms (36 & 29L). We continued our climb in the mid to high 30s, never quite reaching 40 (but almost). We began slowing and eased to a stop in the loop at Grayrigg. We were held for almost 21 mins until a couple of northbound trains passed. Now for Shap.

    Now 55L, Clun made a noisy start with plenty of dark exhaust, should look good at Beckfoot for the photographers. 5 miles to gather some speed before the start of Shap. Lowgill and up to 41 (58L), as we reached the start of the so called “Shap Trial” section at MP31½ (being on the non-milepost side it was the A685 overbridge for me, about 70yds to the north) at 55mph – more would have been better. Crossing Birkbeck Viaduct we were down to 48, under the Greenholme Road at 42 and now on the 1/75r. Plenty of exhaust and great noises but it was hard work as we passed the gallery at Scout Green 31/30, across the road to the Shap Wells Hotel (27.6) and we battled to the summit at 25.7, rising to 28.3 at the summit board.

    Once over the top speed usually builds quickly, today was perhaps a little more restrained; it was 5 miles beyond the summit before speed reached 60, despite briefly touching 75, we passed Clifton & Lowther at 71 (59L). I wonder if we had been told that our path was now 60 mins later than planned or that we had merely “dropped into it” with no prizes for shaving a few minutes off. Looked like a 20mph speed limit thro’ the platforms at Penrith (20 & 59L). Some lovely fast running for 4 miles each side of Southwaite (56L), all at 75+ and dashed off in a little over 6 mins. As we approached Carlisle 37418 was waiting at Upperby, it made sense to send it in front as it was faster than us, would be ready to work the ECS out of the station and shouldn’t really need to follow as insurance. The road tanker with the water was parked up ready. As we ran into the station Tangmere was waiting to depart at the head of the Lune Rivers Trust special, I spotted Rob Russell (fireman) on the footplate. We stopped in platform 1 at Carlisle at 13:41 (58L). We were instructed to be back on the station for 14.50 for a possible 15.00 departure and to look on the departure boards for details.

    The first half ended – not sure of the score.

    Half Time Interval

    Plans to go to the nearby Italian were shelved, Mrs W who is more fleet of foot than Oswald, volunteered to head to the centre for sandwiches whilst Oswald “busied” himself around the station. A wander to the front to see the loco, I had to settle for glimpses of the splendid machine surrounded by its band of admirers. I returned towards platform 4 just in time to see Tangmere head south, then a return to the front to try to get a pic of Clun. I wandered to the rear, now the front, where 37418 was already attached, a pic of 37418 (just for the record) – what a snap happy old Oswald I am! As 37418 didn’t look like moving I headed back to pl 3 to await Mrs W’s return.

    (37418 headed out at 14.10, almost 30 mins after we had arrived and 15 mins after the 37 had run on from Upperby. This illustrates some of the difficulties in attempting to regain lost time.)

    Mrs W appeared a few minutes later, we bought a couple of hot drinks and sat at a picnic table for our sandwiches and tea.

    Despite regularly checking the departure boards we saw no mention of our train. A few minutes later, Mrs W spotted 37814 approaching pl 1 with the ECS (it stopped at 14.57 (now only 40L thanks to quick servicing/watering). We headed over the bridge and took our seats, the whole train had been turned, so we were still “wrong side”. We sat and waited and waited . . .

    The Second Half – 7029 Clun Castle hauling GUV, POB + 7 and 37418 on the back (oh dear)

    It was explained that, running late, it had been decided to take 37418 with us. It had been planned that 37418 would follow and then be attached to the rear in the loop at Hellifield before running round and going on the front at Crewe. The new plan was to stop at Settle Jn, detach the 37, the main train to then run forward into the loop at Hellifield, then the 37 to attach to the front. [This would require running past thro’ the platform, down the Blackburn line, crossover and then come back onto the front]. A bit of a spoiler but a timesaver and understandable. [There was no mention of coal quality]. It could have been worse, the 37 could have gone on the front at Carlisle!

    So, a half time substitution (really an extra player) and a change of formation for the second half.

    The Leeds train left Carlisle at 14.50, could we follow say 20 mins later? No, it was announced that we had been delayed until NR signed off on the plan to detach the 37 at Settle Jn. At 15:27, just over 63L, we set off.

    The initial section towards the summit before Low Hill Xng was fine, plenty of chuff and sensible speeds. As the journey progressed the 37 became more heavily involved with Clun joining in on an as and when basis. Here are just a couple of the events that followed.

    Thro’ Appleby (59 & 56E), after which the train had to be eased (line limit) before Ormside Viaduct with 61mph at MP275. Later and approaching Kirkby Stephen and we slowed (platform clearance?), thro’ KS at 16 (54L). Leaving KS came a major intervention from 37814 as we accelerated up the hill to Birkett Tunnel, 46 in and 47 out. Up to 54 at Mallerstang, then “coming round the corner” towards Ais Gill, the diesel backed off and Clun opened up for the last couple of miles, she sounded splendid. Speed was held just above 39mph from Angerholme to the summit – a good show for those waiting (and there were plenty). Past the Summit Board at just under 42 and 53L.

    Fast forward to Settle and now “only” 48L as we slowed for our diesel-detachment at Settle Jn. We stopped just short of the SB for 2 mins, presumably to receive instructions. Then on past the box to the colour light signal a few hundred yards beyond. It took just under 10 mins to detach the 37 and we were on our way – Pure Steam! Thro’ Long Preston but now 66½L. We stopped in Hellifield GL at 17:32 (69L) for water. 5 mins later 37814 passed thro’ the platform line before coming onto the front.

    Here endeth the second half, not sure of the score but I think we might be losing.

    Mrs checked her phone for the football results; her team had lost. (Her team were playing away from home, if they had been playing at home Mrs W would not have been on the train). The day was not going well.

    The Third Half – 37418 piloting 7029 Clun Castle and hauling GUV, POB + 7 (oh dear, oh dear)

    Yet another change in formation, searching for a result the manager had thrown the big defender (37814) “up front”.

    By this point Oswald had lost interest, the GPS was packed away, and we waited patiently for the off. This came at 17:54 (55L), the planned 36 min stopover had been reduced to 22. We headed for Horrocksford Jn with 37814 making sounds that were in keeping with our rural surroundings. We could make up more lost time if the Rochdale Flyer (18:22 from Clitheroe) was cancelled or running very late (and as Tom Jones sang, It’s Not Unusual!). We were held at Horrocksford Jn, frustratingly RTT showed that the working from Rochdale had arrived at Clitheroe (RT) but didn’t show times for crossing over or the departure to Rochdale – sing it again, Sir Tom! (RTT was updated later, as is often the case at Horrocksford.)

    Eventually we left and headed thro’ Clitheroe only to be held at Whalley whilst the “Flyer” cleared Daisyfield Jn. Once underway Clun opened up and barked across the Arches and up the bank. We saw some friends on the station at Langho and most of the regulars were still in situ at a now dark R&W. Down the hill and thro’ Blackburn Tunnel towards the station where light rain was falling, some things never change. We headed to the front to watch Clun (and 37814) head off into the night.

    Not sure of the final score, ask Alan Shearer. Has Mrs W ever told you that he used to play for her team?!

    Our decision to park at Blackburn proved to be a good one as the next train to Preston had been cancelled. 50 yards from home the light rain turned heavier. As we went indoors, we were greeted by Maisie who was very pleased to see us.

    It was good to meet and have a brief chat with Al (@Big Al) and Graham (@1020 Shireman). Ironically, talking with Graham, I had asked him about a Castle’s 7P rating and the need for Welsh steam coal – seems I got my answer in spades!

    Thanks to VT for organising and operating the trip. Thanks for seats in a coach with opening toplights and with no tailgunner (at least for some of the journey). Thanks for the magnificent soundtrack on at least some of the journey. Special thanks to all who kept the show on the road, despite all the challenges.

    Will VT run The Shap Mountaineer again next year? I hope so. Will Oswald be on it? I hope so. Note to VT: next time bring your own coal.
     
  19. LittleRedTrain

    LittleRedTrain Member

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    He definitely reached my table at the very front of Coach H, but I think that may have been after you had already alighted at Crewe.
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    A nice report to back up the one by @1020 Shireman. It seems you were both on the same train. :)

    In the absence of the STN I'm not certain about the slowings en route in each direction but picked up that Oxenholme may have been a clearance issue and the slowing to 20 before Upperby Bridge Junction was for an underbridge. Ditto for clearances at Kirkby Stephen (not signals). But if anyone knows differently, a message on here would be appreciated.

    As for the rather cheeky "bring your own coal" sign off by Mr Oswald, many a true word can be said in jest. I have to say that given the rubbish that apparently went into Clun's tender, having looked at videos of both Shap ascents - Clun and Tangmere - and knowing the reputation of Tangmere, I find the exhausts of each quite difficult to fathom. Maybe the coal came from different batches. Maybe GWR locos just don't like Carnforth coal. Who knows? Answers on a postcard please for future reference. ;)

    Anyway, despite the traumas and the expense, it was good of VT to stage the spectacle and watching the support crew flat out at Crewe loading coal for the final leg brings home to me the commitment that everyone made in the planning and on the day. Thanks to all.
     
    MellishR, Julian Jones și Oswald T Wistle apreciază asta.

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