The 'Festive Flying Scotsman'. 14/12/25

Finsbury Park to York hauled by DB class 67. York to Newcastle hauled by Flying Scotsman.
Train features mk.3 coaches from Eastern Rail Services. <BJ>

News from UK Railtours:
''UK Railtours in proud association with the Science Museum Group, DB Cargo, Northern Steam Operations and Eastern Rail Services, bring you a classic Christmas excursion train from London to Newcastle featuring the world famous Flying Scotsman''.
https://www.ukrailtours.com/.../the-festive-flying-scotsman/

 

Well done UK Railtours! Hopefully a toe in the water for other trips which could also include Tornado.
Maybe Railway Touring Company are also watching closely..

 

Mk.3 stock. No doubt those who book will be happy just to have been pulled by flying Scotsman but I just don’t see the fun in travelling in an air conditioned coffin behind steam.

 

I've done steam with Mk3s once, and it's utterly pointless from an enthusiast point of view. They're so well insulated you can't hear anything really, even the whistle was barely audible.

 

And a double chimney A3 is not exactly the loudest locomotive on the planet

 

As far as I can recall I have never travelled in an aircon MkII or MkIII coach behind steam, but I agree with this sentiment so I probably never will. To put it in perspective, however, even in a MkI with opening windows the loco is only audible for some of the time, and even when it sounds really good some of the passengers keep yattering.

 

I am usually in the dining section where indeed it does seem to be most of them, but thought perhaps other sections might have a higher proportion of people wishing to hear the loco. I am sorry to be told it's just as bad there.

 

As per my similar reply in Flying Scotsman thread a bigger picture view is needed here. This would appear to be the only solution for Flying Scotsman's use on the mainline, given even if Carnforth had compliant Mk1s available, they are on the record as refusing to operate the A3. The only other supplier is LSL who have enough locos already!!

I would suggest this is a very positive move as it shows there is another way of operating steam on the mainline away from the 'Big 2', which after the last 18 months can only be a good thing. Don't forget Tornado (who 10A also refuse to use) & Clan Line are also on DB's books, who also generally avoid diesels in the consist if they can too.
If this is successful then hopefully there will be some more trips in the pipeline.

 

You hope it goes well for the passengers, but there are a hell of a lot of "moving parts" in the logistics of this.
It is not like WCRC or LSL bringing a set down getting everything assembled at Southall and popping over to the Cross in the morning.
Will FS be kept at Stewarts Lane?
Where do you keep the stock and cater it? I guess it has to come down from Great Yarmouth isn't it?
None of it of course is impossible, but maybe some challenging parts.
What is the size of the DB steam driver pool these days? RTC are out most weeks, sometimes twice or three times is that something DB could resource?

 

I think it is and wonder what proportion of today's 'enthusiasts' want to hear the loco up front over the innate din of their own sound - that some like to project on basis that the whole coach must be interested in them! I'm even finding that too on steam galas - most recently I chose to sit as close behind the feisty 3F Jinty at the SVR gala and was surprised that nobody else in my vicinity seemed particularly interested in listening. Someone even complained that the open window was a bit draughty!

 

You seem to be forgetting that this set of carriages is out most weeks on diesel tours often from the capital, the team know what they are doing, its just steam rather than diesel on the front for part of the journey! Steam is York-Newcastle-York, so FS will be at the NRM.
As for RTC, no DB wouldn't be able to resource their entire programme I am not suggesting that, but how about some of their Southern or South Western trips which have frequently seen diesel substitution this year or run some East Coast trips with Tornado - which clearly DB can resource?
Spread the risk and it also sends a message of confidence to passengers as well.
The likes of UK Railtours have no issue using multiple suppliers & operators.

 

So I missed it was from York, which means that the loco has a base. But that still leaves the question of how many steam drivers DB have these days and what they sign for, unless you use pilotmen.

 

. . . And there is always a lady with a loud voice who enjoys being heard over everyone else. On one WCME there was even a group broadcasting a hockey match on their laptop. On a different note, I wonder if any of the tour operators have thought of offering seats in a "quiet" coach as per national operators - at a small premium. You know what I mean, a "quiet" coach where all you can hear are people on their mobile phones.

 

Yes I had an "enthusiast" like that at the Swanage Gala. Got into the bay of 4 in front of me, shut the window, then walked across and shut the one on the bay of 4 opposite. This in the coach behind the loco, so why not sit farther back if you do not want the window open?

 

Had a couple of ladies who boarded Enthusiast Class at the front of the recent VT Shap Mountaineer train, (so must have paid a premium for it), who then insisted that it was too noisy, fumey and draughty and asked the stewards to sit them in a coach further back! I'm not sure quite what they were expecting.

Their vacant seats were then taken by a couple of press people who were covering the train for The Observer magazine. However, one of them was clearly also an enthusiast, and they were both loving it!

 

DB moved Tornado to the Greatest Gathering a few weeks ago & have undertaken moves for Flying Scotsman between heritage lines as well as operating the Belmond Pullman to Derby - they clearly still have some expertise away from London.