P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

The tender wheelsets for P2 class No. 2007 Prince of Wales have returned to DLW following balancing at Sulzer in Teesside.

 

Apparently balancing a wheelset by grinding out bits of the rim is normal...

 

Just can’t get those LNER knock-on weights any more. I don’t recall this happening on Tornado’s tender wheels. Assume you’d have to repeat every time they fit new tyres?

 

I would have thought the tyres would be considerably more uniform than the centres. Presumably Tornado has disc wheels, so the machining for balancing would look different.

I seem to remember from the RCTS books that the LNER did not originally balance tender wheels, but realised in the 30’s that it would improve the high speed ride considerably.

 

I used to work on the Wheel Balancer occasionally at BREL York as a relief machinist.
A Wheel set came to me direct from the wheel lathe.
I would then set it up on the balancer rollers bolted by the threaded connection on the axle end, driven by an electric motor.
Any previous weights were removed. Nut and bolt job with spanner or if difficult an air chisel.
When ready the balancer was started and rotated the wheelset.
The Electronics then worked out what weight to add and were on the disc it should be fitted.
All this was very similar in method to a similar set up in your local Kwik Fit tyre depot, just on a heavier scale.

As an aside the whole shop I worked in was devoted to Wheel set renewal.
First was the strip down of a bogie with all small parts rebushed on the 50t general press.
Then if a new tyre was needed, the wheel set was set up vertically in the lathe to remove the Gibson ring then into the fire to
expand the tyre till it dropped off.
Then measurement was then carried out to create a matched Tyre to suit a skimmed Disc and repeated at the other end.
A return to the fire then occurred to fit the new tyres.
New Discs and Axles could also be fitted here, using the 200t Axle Press.
The finished wheel set was then moved to the Wheel Lathe for profiling and matching.
If a BR 1 Wheelset needed any Journal work that went to the journal lathe mainly to have the bearing surfaces rolled.
From there the last stop was the balancer before axle boxes could be fitted, usually by induction heating of the new roller bearings.

 

Was that the machine made by CEMB in Italy?
I did some work on one of the ones that went there but lost touch after installation.

 

As an engineer, what a wonderful description of procedures involved. I commissioned some wheel lathes in my career but never got to see the full process. Many thanks for your dialogue... very interesting....

 

My period on the balancer was between 1985 and 1987. When repair work finished.
No idea as to make of Balancer but the Wheel Lathe was a Hegenscheidt

 

With the wheels balanced, surely a quick win is to build up the kit of parts that are to hand to build up the tender.
It was mentioned in January, and see no reason to not start, manpower dependent.

As @Sheff says, fitting the boiler, without doing the cylinder block makes design and measurement for the inside valve gear difficult.
Much better to complete that and be happy before fitting the block, then boiler.

 

If nothing else, it'd give the Trust something to crow about at their Convention.

 

The A1 is now on the road alongside the P2 at the new Darlington Locomotive Works, the first time the locomotives have been together since the P2 was mere frames.

Kenny Felstead.

 

Some news about the P2 gleaned from this year's convention - I struggled to see any difference in the loco compared to 3 years ago, except that the tender is assembled.

The boiler has been pressure tested and signed off. Delivery to Darlington expected on or around 28th October (this year!).

Rileys have been given the job of installing the monobloc in the frames - there's a possibility this could take place in Darlington.

Nobody I spoke to seemed to know about the current situation with the new cannon box. Has it been cast? Was it awaiting machining?
I thought this was critical if the pony truck needs to be installed before the monobloc, but no-one knew whether this was the case either.

The 3D-printed cambox produced by David Elliott was on display - fascinating. Nobody seemed to know if anything has been done about working towards a life-size model or producing any components of the valve gear. I suspect they are some way away from cutting metal.

In short, a major focus on the P2 and substantial progress expected in 2026. On the downside, the level of engineering knowledge did not convince me. Expected completion in 2028/9.

 

Thank you for the update.
Sadly it sounds to be much as I expected and it’s hard to see the a P2 progressing with any real pace or quality unless the Trust can recruit a true successor to the much missed David Elliott.

 

Good client-side engineers who can both grasp the detail and see the wood for the trees are by no means common.

You can (and should) have consultants advise on specific areas of expertise, but someone needs to be the informed client. It's as much a management role as a design role.

On the assumption there is no David Elliott 2 out there, I'd be looking more at an engineering design manager than a designer per se.

 

If they’re going down the sub-ing everything out as packages then I absolutely agree, though you still need to find the competent creative person as well, to finish the design of the valve gear.

 

Definition of a consultant: someone who takes on a jobs and who then asks you lots of questions about it then dresses your answers up in a large fancy document which he/she presents to you and charges you lots of money for. The conclusions always end in a recommendation for further work which they can do at even more cost. Been there and done it.

 

The B17 new build guys are casting the same item, and the P2 were going to add a further casting, to share costs.
As mentioned by others the original casting was damaged during machining, and is BER.
Dont know where in the scheme of this, the casting is done yet.

 

Perhaps we should come out of retirement? £££££

 

A man is in a hot-air balloon and has got lost, so he shouts down "where am I?"
"You're in a hot air balloon" comes the reply
"Are you a lawyer?"
"Yes I am, how did you know?"
"You've given me an answer that is technically correct but useless"

"I see", says the man on the ground "are you a client?"
"Yes I am, how did you know?"
"Well, you're in a bunch of trouble of your own making, asked me a question with no context, haven't got the answer you want and are trying to make it my problem"

 

The current Mikado Messenger has just landed in my inbox. From that: