15" Passenger Carrying Loading Gauge

I am looking for information on the loading gauge required for a 15" passenger carrying railway. Along the lines of the Ravenglass, Bure Valley or Romney.
What is the overall width and active operating envelope?
The coaches should be able to sit two people side by side.
I can guess that there is no actual definitive specification but it would help with some research for a potential project.
Any pointers or suggestions gratefully received!

 

Have a look at RSP5 which was originally produced by the ORR and is currently available on the HRA website. There is some good information on the structure gauge. The loading gauge and structure gauge should be complementary. If you are designing from a clean sheet I would define the loading gauge and then define the structure gauge. If your structure gauge already exists, then that would define the loading gauge. Be wary of going too wide with the vehicle width as that can lead to vehicle instability.
You shouldn't have to be a HRA member to access this. If it doesn't work, pm me.
https://www.hra.uk.com/storage/HGR-A0000 Guidance on Minor Railways.pdf

 

Many thanks Steve. Interesting! The structures are already in place and we need to establish if a cycleway and railway can coexist on a former metre gauge trackbed.

 

Laal Ratty is 15" and built on most of the alignment of a 3ft gauge line, but apart from a short section just before Dalegarth it doesn't share the route with roads / paths.

However, the South Tynedale's a 2ft line with the route on a Standard gauge alignment and that is shared with a walking trail and cycle path.

Also the HRA link above !

 

Thanks. I'm still looking for a rough size of the width and height of existing 15" lines to see if we are in the right ballpark. It's the worry about fitting a cycle track and the 15" line through the structures that concerns me.

 

https://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/58/86/2588688_a821b7c3_1024x1024.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...Romney_Station_-_geograph.org.uk_-_775053.jpg

Is that any help? The tunnel at the South end of New Romney station. There's not much gap between the top of the carriage and the tunnel roof. At a rough estimate the carriages are about 4' 6" above rail level, so that would make the tunnel roughly 5'. Width wise it's probably about 6', but doesn't need to be that wide. 3' 6" maybe, 4' for a bit of wiggle room?

 

If you are wanting a distance to work to I would go for 1000mm from the side of the coach to the fence line on the side of the cycleway. On the opposite side you could come down to about 750mm as that should give adequate clearance against people putting an arm out and touching a structure. How wide does the cycleway have to be?
At the end of the day, who is responsible for approving things and should you not be asking them for their requirements?

 

This truly is a 'how long is a piece of string?' question. Say you cut your trackbed in half: one side has a cycle way/ footpath and the other half is your line. This format has precedent - UK 15" gauge lines like BVR, which runs on half of a former standard gauge single line and has footpath/ cycle way for its full length. Aside from the obvious loading gauge restrictions set by existing bridges, narrow cuttings etc, a major bottleneck would occur if you're expecting to have any passing loops. Trains have to be able to pass each other with a safe margin - including passengers leaning out (potentially from both passing trains). If you're going to have hinged opening doors on your stock, trains will need to be able to pass without open doors fouling each other. UK law requires footpath/ cycle way to be fenced from the railway - the stock (and by extension open doors/ leaning-out passengers) therefore needs not to foul fence or path users.

BVR has opening door passenger stock, no open or semi-open carriages (because of a restricted-bore tunnel). Passing loops require up to 60% of the former trackbed formation. BVR carriages (perhaps the largest 15inch gauge UK passenger stock) are 1.3m wide, 1.7m high (from railhead) and 8.5m long. But open doors on both sides will add another metre to that maximum width. The biggest locomotive, No9 is 1.5m wide, 1.95high.

 

Thanks very much for the replies. It really is early days with this project and nothing like this has been done before in Italy. The line in question was abandoned years ago and there are now discussions underway about reusing parts to gain access to a beautiful part of the country.
As ever in Italy things go forward at a very slow pace.

 

I am told that the absolute minimum for the cycleway is 1.4 m.

 

Coming back to this with another question.
We are looking at 35lbs/yard or 17-18 kg/m for rail.
I am looking for a cost for rail. The quantity needed is in total around 4000tonnes but would be split into around 1200T lots.
That quantity is unavailable on the second hand market.
The rolling mills in Spain, India and Poland have not got back to me, probably thinking I am some sort of nut job...
Does anyone have a cost for this size of rail?
12m lengths would be good as they fit on standard trailers.
It's the size of the RHDR rail.
Rolling stock enquiries are at a good point.
We need to get the proposal ready soon for presentation to the regional government.

 

Have you contacted the RHDR or Alan Keef?

 

Yes there has been contact. We are just looking at raw rail supply for the moment. We have to get through the first round of funding proposals.

 

Have you contacted British Steel at Sunny Scunny?

 

No, I have enough hassles of trading post Brexit in my day job!
My understanding is that Scunny does not go to that small a section.

 

If you end up going into the Asian area markets, I would strongly suggest that you employ a very good and on-site resident engineer to keep a very close eye on what the rolling mill get up to.

 

Agreed. I have been working with India and China for 30 years and I still rely on local staff

 

Miniature Railway Supply Co in Hemel Hempstead advertise 36lbs/yd steel rail on their website
http://www.miniaturerailwaysupply.com/rail/s18steelrail.htm
Is this the sort of thing that you're looking for? They might be able to supply or suggest a supplier.

 

I had not thought of asking them. Thanks.

 

Isn't that about enough rail for about 75 miles of single line?