North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Scotsman is significantly more expensive than Gresley. £54.50 against £30 (from memory) and 15 days compared with 10 days. Trying to remember whether Gresley was only two round trips as against three with Scotsman, as well. Those figures would fit.

 

I guess you'll be stopping posting now that you're on Trust Board as the policy of board members not posting on internet forums seems to be being pushed again from what I hear. Will @Lineisclear be doing the same, I wonder?
Shame if that's the case.

 

Yes FS is more famous than Tornado, but then I keep thinking of Trigger’ brush…

 

A concept so altered over time that originally it was Trigger’s broom

Tom

 

The AGM recording is now online

https://www.nymr.co.uk/agm2025

Jon

 

At present I see no problem, as I normally try and keep my responses factual in terms of “for information” or trying to give clarity to an issue eg gift aid (though sometimes failing), and with information already in the public domain eg NYMR website or by pure observation. However I will keep out of debates and the “wouldn’t it be nice if” type response (even if I’m reading such posts with a passion).

 

SNG had two return trips, 10.30 and 13.30 ex Pickering.

 

Yes, 60007 ran L/E each morning to Pickering and back again L/E in the evening - just like old days

Peter

 

If you want to know the historical background to why anything is the way it is, don't be afraid to ask. Good luck!

Sawdust.

 

I don't envy any of you, the future has not looked so uncertain as it is now at anytime since the early eighties.

Sawdust.

 

Flying Scotsman to the rescue! Whoever thought up the idea deserves a pat on the back.

 

I suspect some eyes will be opened.

 

There are lots of unanswered questions that might have arisen from that (admittedly brief ) synopsis, though. It's all very well to say that the various special events have saved the financial situation - but have they? The NYMR has been losing large sums in reccnt years, so what is the true position this year - another big loss and just enough money earner to limp through to the start of next year, or has the annual loss been significantly reduced? If dining services are doing so well, why is the possibility of expanding them not being explored, for example balancing the Grosmont-based Pullman lunchtime services with a mixed service train with dining portion from Pickering, for example? AIUI the RF is currently only used to carry out washing up - how about refurbing the kitchen in it as the basis of a second dining set, and just doing the washing up at the respective terminii? Or get the teak carriages fixed and use the buffet car kitchen.

Another question that arises is that Lineisclear tells us that the Heritage Railway trading model is broken and no longer generates enough income, but according to the synopsis "The saviour seems to be the big special events with SNG clocking up £150K, theDiesel Gala £57K, the Steam Gala £141K and Scotsman (so far) £750K. " - Perhaps I'm missing something here, but these all seem like traditional heritage railway fare to me! There's no mention of how well the dinosaur, fairies and story reading events performed, or what difference they made! It seems to me, at least, that what the NYMR needs is more heritage style events that attract high visitor numbers, perhaps to replace some of those abandoned - for example the wartime weekend - which could be redesigned as a 190s event to avoid the pitfalls encountered in its earlier form. In fact, what is the overall strategy for providing a more attractive service to help fill non-Whitby trains, and promote them? It doesn't seem as though there is one! The evidence is there that heritage sells, but it barely seems to dawned on the management that this is really where the focus should lie, and that heritage variety to be a management priority.

And, finally - is the best use being made of the new carriage shed? If it causes operational problems, do carriages have to be shunted into it every night? Is that necessary, it's out of season when the most wear occurs!

 

Many thanks for taking the time Steve for an overview of what was said.

Best regards

 

I’ve never posted on this thread but generally read most posts over the years. My thoughts are based on nearly 40 years in heritage preservation starting as a 16 year old 1n 1987 so I’ve seen the highs and now you could say the lows of the movement. It’s now more chicken and egg more than ever, every railway needs income to keep ageing infrastructure going and hopefully have a little bit to progress new projects which keep the volunteers engaged and motivated. But to generate the income everyone is working harder than ever and having to make difficult decisions and invariably this can cause issues. I do feel that the longer lines have the Biggest problems with the length of line and number of bridges etc. , imagine if the svr, Nymr and wsr didn’t have a mainline connection there would be no SNG or FS visits which let’s face it have saved some of these railways to fight another year with a timely big cash injection. How long that can go on for is another thing? OSTs are rising, we’re seeing downturns in customer spending and we’re all seeing lower number of volunteers. On that last note I do seriously think that 5 years from now things could be very different as a lot of the early preservation pioneers and loco owning group volunteers retire. It’s really hard to know what the answer is as people are very happy to have a dig at boards but don’t always want to either suggest proposals (or put themselves up for management). I would add it does work the other way and we have all known people in authority who either won’t listen to sound advice and think they know better. I personally have actively been involved with gala planning for 15 years and so have an idea of what can go on !

 

A few points.

It's sad that the AGM is now no longer the social event it once was, online participation and postal voting has diminished the human contact and opportunity for post meeting feedback and exchange of ideas. While I accept there cannot be a return to how things used to be done. I think there needs to be an incentive for members to attend thus enabling personal interaction with trustees and plc board members on a personal level. I think this would help break down barriers that seem to have formed.

It is clear that despite its inconvenience to the MPD, that serious consideration should be given to bringing back the spring gala. The loss of income from this event cannot be afforded. Also consider the possibility of a mixed traction event. Gala events used diesels as well as steam up until the mid 80s.

For similar reasons the railway should seek to participate in the 40s weekend.

Serious consideration should be given to additional themed galas. The idea I always tried to push was an ecml event. (Pacifics, teaks, mark ones, Deltics, mark twos and an HST). I shall point out the most profitable gala ever was the LNER carriage gala in 2005. Note it took place in the spring, ran for an extended period. It involved bringing in vintage rolling stock from the SRPS, SVR and Bluebell, as well as bringing in guest locos. The noteworthiness of this event enabled HLF funding to be obtained which covered the costs of bringing things in. To my mind the best diesel event and one that also was enjoyed by the non enthusiast was the one that featured air braked mk2s, a sprinter and a then brand new voyager.

I'm afraid to say the early pioneers of the NYMR are mostly long gone. Bert Kemenoe, Jack Neale, Derek Hanson, Les Barwick, Charlie Hart and many other stalwarts were giving their time selflessly to get the railway through it's difficult formative years. What it has grown into and achieved is far beyond what their expectations were when it began.

Fares. These really need looking at. There is undoubtedly a sweet spot for ticket prices. We would see this in the past, if you raised ticket prices too much year on year there would be a marked decrease in income the following year. Not putting them up would see an increase in income on the preceding year.

Operating days. There are weeks where the most profit will be made running seven days a week, some five days, some three days and some two days there should be enough historical data to plan the timetable to generate the maximum income from the most moderate expenditure. The NYMR is not a public transport service, ideally no operating day should make a loss. Also consider days of four, three, two and even one train operation.

Improve the visitor experience, do more to create the feeling passengers have stepped back in time. For example have an old valve radio case play quietly music and radio programmes from the past in the background in tearooms. Anything which improves ambience will add to perceived value to people's day out.

Guide Line, is that still a thing? Charlie Hart took a fortune that way. Guide to the line 50p was his sales pitch on the train. It wasn't lavish, it was cheaply produced but contained a map highlighting features that could be seen from the train with a little background. Of course these days it wouldn't need to be a leaflet or booklet. A phone app would do, using global positioning satellites it would tell you what you were looking at as you went by it on the train.

The one thing the NYMR cannot afford to do now is be complacent, things are not going to magically get better on their own.

Sawdust.

 

A new guide book has just been issued, £5, we have seen sellers (generally the same gentleman) on most trains this season, with copies also with the buffet staff.

 

I don't know about an undoubted sweet spot. Obviously charging too little or too much is to be avoided, but there is probably a "least worst" price point which maximises the income from fares while still being not at all "sweet", bringing in far less than is desirable.

 

I was dismayed, but not surprised, that Network Rail will not have the new Grosmont token and signalling arrangements in place by next season.

Where's the vision?