The Route to Preservation following the end of Steam

I believe it did one run in late 1966 for the A4 locomotive society to raise money for 4498s overhaul at Crewe. 60019 then did three runs in 1967, I’ve read that the cylinders were bored out to 19 inches from the 18.5 standard for A4s. This obviously wouldn’t have helped the cracked frames.

 

More pre-grouping GWR locomotives have survived than from any other pre-1923 railway, helped not only by Barry but because Churchward's locomotives continued to be GW standards. Of course the GW was one of the largest railways and had a lot of locomotives to start with, but compare with the LNWR, Midland, etc. For the record, the Brighton comes second and LSWR third, partly because the Southern built no small locomotives but also because the Bluebell got in early. A lot more pre-1900 Brighton locomotives than from anywhere else; shows what a good engineer Stroudley was.

 

It carried a 50A shedplate to reflect the fact that after purchase it was stabled at York.

Withdrawn 5 September 1966 from Ferrryhill. Photographed here at Newcastle on 12 November 1966, crossing the River Eden at Carlisle on 16th July 1967 and again at Newcastle on 4 November 1967.

 

And yet more Terriers have survived than all pre WW1 GWR locomotives put together!

 

Some items from my collection to go with the above pictures. Additionally a reel to reel recording from the July 1967 tour

 

Yes, but find me any two that still look the same after 150 years

Tom

 

The SR figures are distorted by the large number of Terriers and Bulleid pacifics

 

I think you mean "enhanced" but we'll take it

Actually, all three of the main pre-grouping constituents of the SR did very well in preservation, but in different ways. For the SECR, you get a broad cross section of one designer's work. For the LBSCR, it is really quantity over quality - lots of Terriers, very little else. But it is the LSWR that really has a rich collection. You have locos spread over 50 years; covering all four major CMEs from the 1860s onwards; examples of suburban passenger, express passenger and mainline goods engines, and in many cases several examples of each covering different generations. What survived of the LSWR is more representative than any other pre-grouping company. Just a pity so few carriages have made it into preservation to join the locos, and that there is so little interest in restoring those that do survive.

Tom

 

The LBSC, apart from Terriers, Gladstone, which hasn't turned a wheel in years, Birch Grove, E1 0-6-0 tank and Beachy Head?

Two big and important pre group companies which are poorly represented are the GC and LNWR, there is a new build George V project but it's making very slow progress

 

Its interesting how it worked out.
There's very little pre Churchward GWR because Collett and Hawksworth did a major fleet refresh of six wheeled classes and pretty much replaced all the Dean and Armstrong stock with updated versions that were more economical to maintain, whereas in Maunsell's time nearly all the SR emphasis was on electrification, and Bulleid had a desperate case of big chufferitis, so consequently the SR kept all sorts of antiquities running which we've benefitted from.

 

Quite a bit of the Southerns old stuff were niche jobs, like Lyme Regis, Hayling Island,The Withered Arm etc

 

These three seem to have been overlooked in this thread. They were all stored at Stratford following withdrawal. B12 61572 and J15 65462 were purchased by the M&GNJRS in 1963 and stored at various sites around East Anglia until moved to the North Norfolk Railway in 1967. N7 69621 was purchased by Fred Youell at around the same time and stored at Neville Hill until it was moved to what is now the East Anglian Railway Museum in the early 1970s.

 

OT, but Bulleid was just anticipating the diesel era - and the use of Type 5s for everything.

 

We are getting dangerously close to the territory where @Jamessquared's Third Law of Nat Pres kicks in ...

Tom

 

At the risk of thread drift, it struck me recently that the good cross-section of LSWR locos means that if we were to take a straw poll, the choice for "What class of LSWR loco do you wish had survived but didn't/would you hypothetically like to see as a new-build?" is not nearly so straightforward as for the other two major constituents of the Southern. For the LBSCR, a K class would be the clear winner and for the SECR, I'd suspect that most people would regard the biggest omission as a D1 or E1 (One of these would certainly get my vote), but for the LSWR? A "Black Motor" given that no LSWR 0-6-0 has survived? An H16? (Almost the perfect engine for the Mid Hants) a "Jubilee?" (Hardly any 0-4-2s have survived and Gladstone is highly unlikely ever ot steam again), A D15? (yes, two LSWR 4-4-0s are still with us, but the D15s were rather handsome engines and by all accounts, good performers) or even a T14 "Paddlebox"? (the least bad of the Drummond 4-6-0s, rather handsome beasts and perhaps some of their design problems could be dealt with, as per 71000) I'm not sure which of these options I would plump for.

<end of thread drift!>

 

Don't forget the new build GC 4-4-0 https://www.gcr567loco.co.uk/ which is making reasonable progress.

 

Yes thanks, I'd forgotten that one, and I do think that will be a goer

 

It was very much the case that the SR retained small numbers of very old engines for niche duties. The 3 Beattie 2-4-0WTs on the Wenford line had originally formed part of a class of 85 engines, of which the other 82 had been scrapped before 1900. The 3 Adams 4-4-2Ts at Lyme Regis had come from a class of 71, with the other 68 withdrawn by 1930.

Some of the Stroudley Terriers were retained for various niche duties, but they weren't the only small 0-6-0Ts on BR. The GW 1361 and 1366 dock tanks were only slightly larger, as were the ex-NER J72s, of which BR built another 20 as late as 1949.

Some of these little old engines had (and still have) great appeal to enthusiasts and were very suitable for the Bluebell and other preservation schemes in their early years.

It is a mistake, however, to think that the SR was awash with very old engines, or that it was unique in retaining some of them for very long lives. For example, the Midland Kirtley double-framed 0-6-0s, of which several hundred were built prior to 1874, did not become extinct until 1951.

 

Correct on the Midland 0-6-0s, similar ones on the other three groups had all disappeared at about the grouping. One of the Midland ones actually hung on long enough to carry BR 58110

 

Just thought I'd go through my 1958 Observers book and count up all the classes originated in the 19thC

GWR 1.5 (Dukedog = 19thC chassis, 20thC boiler)
GWR/Cardiff 1
======
2.5

SR/LSWR 9
SR /SER 2
SR/LBSCR 3
======
14

LMS/MR 4
LMS/LNWR 2
LMS/L&Y 7
LMS/CR 5
LMS/NLR 1
======
19

LNER/GNOSR 1
LNER/ GER 6
LNER/ NER 5
LNER/ GCR 2
LNER/ NBR 2
LNER/ GNR 2
======
18