North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

The recent steam gala had 3 x load 6 on internals, 1 x load 3 on Whitby shuttles and 1 x load 2 on Levisham shuttles.

So you would have thought with 23 coaches recently available, a load 7 for the Whitby diagram this week would be easy to accommodate.

 

I think the issue is that the start point for almost all of the trains is Grosmont, rather than the norm of Pickering being the busier start point but with all stations open and available. For the FS specials and the Diner its start and end at Grosmont without other options. This week there is one service train for the other stations (and badly timed for most FS specials), next week its just shuttles to and from Whitby with nothing internal.

Why they didn't run at least one other internal train this week (and two next) to enable parking at other stations is baffling.

 

There are FS services at 08.45 and 11.40, then a diner at 12.35. Roughly 450 people on the first two services, 150 on the third. That's over 1000 people starting their journeys in a village that has roughly 100 parking spaces, and no gap between services to give time for cars to leave. The first service from Pickering that connects with the second 60103 has about 300 seats, but is also full of passengers going to Whitby. Then it's a 3 1/2 hour wait after 60103's second trip gets back to Grosmont before the next train to Pickering. Again, a service from Whitby, which will be full. Northern services don't really connect either.

Basically, the only option is to drive to Grosmont and hope you can find a space.

 

Standing room only again on the 1335 - one very annoyed family group, having paid £100+ for a day out on the railway they have supported for 30+ years. Complaint already emailed to Park Street apparently, but I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

 

I’m sure there is a great reason, but couldn’t FS services have started at Pickering?

 

Unlike normal days, there's a deliberate surge created as a return train unloads just as arriving passengers need to park. With only 25 minutes turn around in the morning between departures, arriving cars are going to find spaces already taken. If the trains are late, there's less slack. The whole thing repeats at 1415 etc. Some visitors may wish to hang about for an hour or more afterwards and thereby block a space for an incoming car.
With the FS trips being a sealed train, there isn't the usual flexibility to approach a day out in different ways using varied stations.

Add in a dining train to the mix and inconvenience passengers, who have paid £100 per ticket, by shortening their experience and making them drive elsewhere to wait at Goathland seems less than optimal.
Let's hope they take it in good heart and we can at least be thankful the weather is good and the sun shining.

 

I suspect that many of those spaces filled at Pickering will be passengers seeking to avoid parking issues at Grosmont.

Sawdust.

 

Lack of suitable covered accommodation for the loco and the contract requirement for it to be stabled under cover. There is the PW shed at New Bridge but they’ve tried stabling locos still in steam in there and it caused problems with condensation as it’s unvented. It would also require someone to start at an hour I don’t recognise to shunt it out.

 

This will be partly cramming seven days worth of demand info five.
Like Easter, October half term should be treated as peak demand.
This whole timetable is brain-dead, there is a reason the railway spent much of the last twenty years developing facilities at Pickering to make it easier to originate more services there. What is the point in making expensive investments of you are just going to ignore them.
I think the next set of investments (not renewals) should focus on increasing the number of paths an hour (not necessarily the number of trains), between Pickering and Goathland.
If nothing else this would allow timetables with tidal flows to accommodate demand at times such as these.

Sawdust.

 

As you got my vote I trust that you’ll be asking some searching questions at the next Trust board meeting now you’re a person of influence? Hopefully you’ve already fired off emails to appropriate people demanding answers? You have work to do! ​

 

Why not run it to Pickering light engine then? If mileage is an issue would towing FS in steam with a diesel be acceptable, although I don't see why that should be needed as it runs thousands of miles in positioning moves on the network.
If it is the difference between the NYMR existing or not existing then the one thing that can't be afforded is running the railway for the convenience of the staff. If people who are paid to work there want their possibly dream job and lifestyle to continue, then the NYMR has to make more money than it is currently doing.

Sawdust.

 

Increasing paths isn’t the easiest of things to do. The current critical section is between Levisham & Goathland. Once upon a time it was suggested having a loop at Newtondale (about the only place you can between Levisham & Goathland but that only works for an even interval 1.5 hour service. It doesn’t help with providing more paths. Laying double track from Goathland to summit would help as that would increase the current short section from Grosmont and reduce the long section from Levisham. That then makes Pickering - Levisham the critical section. That can be overcome by having a train already at Pickering and another departing as soon as it arrives. The problem then is that we know people will always try and get from one train to another, causing delays. The answer to that was double track to New Bridge to allow the train to depart before the other arrives but someone built a carriage barn in the way, scuppering that idea.

 

I don’t know what is stipulated in the contract but @Lineisclear has said there’s a maximum daily mileage and, without evidence to the contrary, we’ve got to accept that.

 

On a normal day there is never an issue, but the problem comes with the cars parked for the first train (and I should have said: 465 passengers rather than 405, my bad, hence a demand for 186 parking spaces). Just before the scheduled arrival of the first train back at Grosmont at 11.15 there are 186 cars parked associated with that train. Meanwhile, a fresh load of 186 cars will have arrived for the next 11.45 departure, giving an overall demand of 372 cars parked. Plus then the issue of cars trying to enter and leave the cars parks at the same time. Add staff parking, those just coming to view FS, and those arriving very early for the 15.00 departure. Hence why the chaos between the 1st and 2nd trains (adding in some early arrivals for the 3rd train, some just coming to look at FS) but no issue between 2nd and 3rd departure.

Personally, I would expect similar parking issues whether the train was a round trip starting at Pickering or starting at Grosmont, except if starting at Pickering would mean an additional LE movement between Grosmont MPD and Pickering.
I assume the NRM would require there pound of flesh for this addition movement. Plus possible staffing issues for the length of duty etc

 

You could still possibly pass trains between the barn and New bridge. Graham Reussner wanted to double track Goathland to summit to shorten the middle section, which has always made more sense to me than cutting it in two.
It is that lack of flexibility to have new patterns of operating the service which continues to hold the railway back.

Sawdust.

 

The question is how the railway could afford these improvements, both up front, and then on the maintenance budget.

 

Steve there is no lack of "covered accomodation" at Pickering - I turned up at the carriage barn at 7.30 this morning (dont ask me why) and it was half empty. I'm sure that the A3 could have been stabled there quite easily and met its contractual obligations but.....it seems that it isnt convenient for the operator (who lives in Grosmont) and his team.

Peter

 

Oh come on, you could have said that about any development over the last fifty years (some did).
How? Through growth, being run more efficiently and making a larger (or indeed any) profit, by engaging with the public to raise funds. New projects are far more likely to attract donations.
Did you ever experience when trains had to run into platform 3 at Grosmont with a short platform where it took about 10 minutes for people at the front of the train to be able to get off it onto the short platform and only 5 coach sets could be stabled at Grosmont and has to be built up to 7 and reduced again, every single day. Every improvement I've witnessed has improved flexibility and capacity. Having more paths available would mean less knock on delays when thinks go wrong.

Sawdust.

 

Plenty of people on Pickering station just now.
Locomotion is giving rides

 

True. I was thinking of secure accommodation, though. I suppose it depends on what the small print says although I readily accept your comment about the operator living in Grosmont being the driving force behind the decision to base it there.