North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Ah well, I suppose I suffer from the handicap of having actually read the non -negotiable contract in its entirety. The inference of dishonesty is unjustifiable and speaks volumes about the integrity of those making it.

 

So I wonder who drew up this non - negotiable contract and did it have to be signed? It feels very much like the tail is wagging to dog here.

Peter

 

Peter, it’s the standard loan contract drawn up by the Science Museum. I spent a whole day as a volunteer drafting amendments to make it more equitable but the response was a refusal to countenance any changes. Depends on who you think is the dog and the tail but the fact is that as far as the owner is concerned it’s take it or leave it.

 

Did it occur to ask about towing it in steam instead of a light engine move? I'm not doubting a non negotiable contract being offered but there must have been some dialogue before that, I seem to remember you being on quite good terms with a certain director of the company involved, you didn't even mind when he sold his 9F shortly after yourself and other NYMR volunteers helped with work on it.I don't believe you're untruthful for a second but I think know how to choose your words carefully to direct things the way you'd like them to appear.

Sawdust.

 

How much the world has changed since 1986!

Sawdust.

 

Sorry, I wasn't being serious about this bit.

Sawdust.

 

The non negotiable response came from the owners who call the shots as far as the contract terms are concerned.

 

I’d agree with your last sentence. We don’t know what was in the contract and probably never will Speaking hypothetically the contract could simply say ‘The locomotive shall be kept under cover where possible when not in use.’ and ‘The maximum mileage should not exceed 200 miles/day. ‘ in which case the statement that there is an obligation to store it under cover on a night and there is a daily mileage limit is not untrue. In the end, though, we are where we are. I just hope the lessons are learned.

 

The points to note are not the contract but the parking arrangements and the less hhan optimal timetable in the last peak week of the year.
Pickering was busy today but with only two trains to catch and Locomotion, which is booked out till 4th November, there's not much to do except buy a coffee. Thursday and Friday the doors will be shut!

 

There is a power position in every negotiation, and it is pretty obvious to anyone enthusiast or not that the power in a loan contract for what most see as a national icon will not reside with the heritage line trying to get it to visit.
It would be like telling O'Leary the Ryanair pricing model is wrong and you want to pay something different.

 

Perhaps you should add paranoia to the list of accusations! I don't think that there was any suggestion of outright lying, I think the implication was that, as a lawyer, you interpret - ad your interpretations can reflect a degree of personal bias. Now, having cleared that up, let's return to the real issue NYMR's making a shambles of the visitors arrangements for this event!

 

That's very true.
Steve is corect in his assumption that the standard contract specifies under cover storage when not in use and a maximum mileage limit that would have meant that, if services operated from Pickering, only two return journeys a day would have been allowed i.e, with the daily hire fee staying the same but a drop in potential ticket revenue of around 33%.

There is a serious issue. The standard contract is very unbalanced in terms of risk and liability. My personal view is that creates a material disincentive for heritage railways to hire and operate a national asset purchased with public funds presumably with the intention that the public should have many opportunities to see it steaming. I suspect the contract conditions have been drafted by Government lawyers with the primary objective of minimising risk and liability for the owner and the custodian. Their counter productive effect on the the assumed purpose for which the Loco was purchased has been highlighted.

 

The complete shift since the visit of 92220 in 1986 but also even more recent working visits of national collection locos is something that we all could write letters to our MPs about but I doubt it would make any difference.

Sawdust.

 

The contract hasn’t changed over much then, but maybe the interpretation has a bit. The “under cover when not in use” was previously there, but I was told only applied to periods between continuous use, in other words it didn’t have to be under cover at night if it was in steam the following day.

 

I understand you are stuck to Grosmont as the departure point but were any other options considered for the operation? Why are there so few internal trains to enable passengers to connect that way? Did anyone consider how the West Somerset ran it? Or even as a wildcard, allocate coaches to stations like the excursions do (split half and half between Grosmont and Pickering, or include Goathland as well (though admittedly less total seats that way). Somebody in the planning of this must of mentioned that parking was going to be a problem... It's almost as if it wasn't even thought it might be an issue.

And even for the FS footplate days, didn't anyone think it might be worthwhile running trains to bring people to see it? If not next week at least during this week when its school holidays. Again I understand to a point closing on less busy days of the week, but I question that decision making when school holidays get included. The railway needs all the money it can get yet its missing open goals with not running during holiday periods.

Depending on ticket sales I'd imagine next week will be even worse for parking with no internal connecting train at all. Is anything being considered to change that plan?

 

My interpretation of the condition would be pretty much as you’ve done.

 

So Pickering as a start point would be achievable? I am sure that there was a very logical reason (to someone) why things are the way they are, but the parking issue is the first that always has to considered when running a big event and it rather comes across as the NYMR saying to its customers “parking problem? Yeah, we don’t know where you can park either”. Odd customer service.