The Royal Scot, Thursday 6/11/25

46/47/48 is not too shabby. In fact it's pretty impressive.

Fabulous videos and photo's, many many thanks to all who posted them.
Does anybody know who the footplate crews were ?

 

Check out my video taken off Piccadilly bridge at the top of the bank. Bit dark but worth it for the sound.

 

And maybe a nod to Jeremy and ALL at LSL for yesterday.

 

I love this photograph with the autumn colours in the background and the river in the foreground, to complement the main attraction of the composition.

 

I would suggest just a big a nod to all at Tyesely too, given they did the vast majority of the work on her overhaul.
I do hope there is some freedom to work with other operators other than LSL (as was hinted at by the owners of SNG when they entered into an agreement at Crewe), but this would appear unlikely.
I am pleased though that 71000 was allowed to demonstrate her capabilities so well yesterday, let's hope it isn't a one off. This is a loco that intrigues me as I dont believe we know its true capabilities.
Also, contrary to increasingly popular belief, yesterday proves an enthusiast's tour will sell - if marketed and priced correctly.

 

Call me a cynic if you will but you are overlooking one "small" problem, namely the usual need to operate these trains with something resembling a profit. I know people get fixated by loco performance but yesterdays balance sheet would be far more interesting to see. If you take your rose tinted glasses off for a moment you will see that the costs of the train were heavily underwritten by the operator. By all means enjoy such occasions when they occur but I wouldn't expect them to happen very often.

Sorry for sounding like a boring old realist

Peter

 

Absolutely. This struck me as being more akin to something between a loaded test run and a staff/supplier jolly, with capacity for the public. It was done well, and I'm delighted to see it was a clear operational success, but I don't see it as much of a precedent.

 

I understand what you are saying Peter.

But speaking for myself as a realist whose only interest in travelling on main line steam is timing runs with no assistance for the steam loco, I have long fully accepted there can be large gaps between those trips that interest me.

And with this getting old business; the very long days likely; and a reluctance to travel in the confinement of MKIIs (a health vulnerability), unless something exceptional appears on the list - I have now accepted my main line timing days have probably ended.

So I've never viewed this part of my hobby through rose tinted glasses, always accepting that the product I wish to purchase may not appear very often. And being very grateful when it has appeared.

As for fixated with loco performance. Yes, that is how some of us enjoy our hobby. The same as others enjoy getting new locos travelled behind, steam or diesel, or new track done. Plus other specific interests.

Cheers,

Bryan

 

But we do know DoG holds the preservation record for the fastest climb of Shap and I think the second fastest Blue Riband time up Ais Gill ( and from memory the record without exceeding the line speed but that may be controversial).

My impression from afar is that the station entry/exits at Penrith, Carlisle and Lancaster were cautious affairs,so any comparisons should probably exclude the first and last miles of the legs. Is that fair comment?

Brilliant that LSL were willing to do it and here's hoping that if conditions are right it can be repeated. The run over Shap by 70000 in 2018 is one of my highlights from the last fifteen years.

Thank heaven it wasn't called Duke of York.

 

I guess the annual performance needs to be looked at as a whole. Regardless of the performance of individual tours, has the business itself made a profit (or, at the very least, broken even) over the course of a financial year? Think of how many businesses there are that sometimes sell stuff at a loss in order to bring in more customers who will then hopefully be back on a regular basis to buy more stuff from then on. Short term, it's not a profitable exercise, but over the long-term the results could be worth it.

 

Railway Touring Company charge £16 a head more than the £99 fare yesterday, that includes additional costs of hiring in the TOC, stock and locomotive from a third party. I have no doubt the day was a subsidised staff trip, but I reject the only future for steam is £200+. If that is the future then I am done with mainline steam unfortunately.
Running without a diesel means you don't need the additional crew and fuel for it.
I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of additional locos on back as it has been done to death, but as stated above, some routes are clearly viable unassisted with strategically placed assistance locos. Shap always used to be one of them and so it could continue to be.

 

To add to your list, Eastern Rail Services have 4 generator cars, one currently being used with the 'Inspiration Train'.
The fact a diesel is needed due to air con stock is one of the most popular myths put around here.
The Flying Scotsman trip in December is a very important test for the future of mainline steam in my opinion.

 

The Royal Scot 06 November 2025 with 71000 Duke of Gloucester hauling 8 + POB + Generator Car

This was an unexpected trip for Oswald, “The Duke” Crewe to Carlisle, out and back over Shap, and reported to be no diesel involved. For those travelling from the south there was the added bonus of some class 40 haulage. My thanks to Ralph who spotted the trip and booked the tickets. The first question was how to get to Crewe, by train or drive? The provisional timings offered good train connections from Preston, especially for the return. However, when the final times appeared it would have meant a very late end to the day, so I decided to drive. The landslip near Shap put the trip in doubt, suggestions that the trip might be rerouted say via the S&C appeared, to me, to be wide of the mark. I’m not sure that it would be possible to get to Carlisle and back on the S&C using the published Crewe arrival and departure times and, even if it was possible, it would surely mean that a diesel came along (leaf fall season).

It was a dry and bright morning as I headed south. I’d allowed a shade under 3 hours for what at other times of the day is an 80 or 90 minute drive, but being rush hour, it took 2 hours. I drove around Pedley St car park and eventually found a free space at the what was the furthest section from the station. I could hear the glorious chime whistle as 71000 moved around the station and, as I was leaving the car park, I spotted what looked like an LSL carriage on a low loader heading west past the station. A few minutes later I met up with Ralph on the station, and we made our way to platform 12 to await the arrival of the train.

The train arrived behind the impressive looking 40013 Andania, but even more impressive was the gleaming 71000 Duke of Gloucester waiting to come onto the front. We made our way to our coach, the last one (again). There was a minor hiccup; the seat numbers on all the tickets did not line up with the numbering on the seats. We took our seats, as allocated by the steward, halfway down the coach on the non-milepost side – hey ho!

There were plenty of people on the platforms to watch us leave 3L, with Mike Wylie driving and Jack Gresty firing. Speed was allowed to build gradually, by Winsford we were up to 72 & 5½L. A slowing before Hartford (52 & 4L), up to 62 at Acton Bridge (4L). By now 71000 had warmed to her (his?) work, Acton Grange 73 & 1½L, still 1½L speed increased to 76 as we approached Warrington BQ, what a spectacle for those waiting on the platforms. So far, so good nothing had held us up but there were plenty of junctions to come . . . no problems, we were through. Up to 74 approaching Wigan NW with 73 thro’ the station (RT). We attacked Boars Head Bank and the continuing climb to the summit at Coppull Moor. Boars Head Bank is almost 2 miles at 1/104r, we were 1½ miles into the climb before speed fell below 70, the gradient then eases and we completed the climb with a minimum of 66.5mph.

Now on favourable down grades speed increased to 77 at Balshaw Lane Jn and 1E, we continued on the fast line, passing Euxton Balshaw Lane station (on the slow line) at 75. The Duke was purring along; 67 at Euxton Jn (2E) and thro’ Leyland at a smidge under 70. We began to slow for Preston, would we make the approach from the south unchecked, a rare event? Yes, and perhaps an even rarer event, pass through Preston without stopping in the station, service train or special! The answer was again, yes (&2E). [The only time I have passed thro’ Preston without stopping was when I stowed away inside a Tesco container – only joking!]

We approached Barton & Broughton loop (4E) but were held for 2min before being allowed to run into the loop to take water. The water was from a tanker parked on the other side of a small field with a hose crossing the field. Topped up we left RT and headed towards what promised to be the main event of the day. Even at the back of the train the wonderful sound of 71000 working away from the stop could be heard clearly.

Speed rose to 66 at Garstang and increased further to just under 70 as we cruised along. Approaching Galgate we slowed and were down to the low 40s as we reached the outskirts of Lancaster. Away again and we charged thro’ the middle road at Lancaster (73 & RT), up to 77 at Morecambe S Jn and 78 at Hest Bank (Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside!) 76 at Bolton-le-Sands and still 76 as we passed the “WCRC watchers” at Carnforth who were acknowledged with a blast on the chime. Up to 77 as we sped through the station, just a “Brief Encounter”. Speed continued to rise as we hit the foot of Yealand Bank, the short climb was flattened with a minimum of 66. Onwards and upwards, well not upwards just yet, but the “up” was coming, and coming quickly at this speed – Grayrigg beckoned!

Speed built towards the foot of Grayrigg (MP13 or Bela Viaduct for me on the wrong side) and we took it at a splendid 78.6, still over 76 at Milnthorpe then eased slightly beyond Hincaster to ensure that we didn’t catch up with the late running TP service to Glasgow. Thro’ Oxenholme (59.3 & 3½E), speed held well on the climb staying in the mid to low 50s, with 52 crossing Docker Garth Viaduct. Speed dipped below 50 when less than 1½ miles from the summit (now climbing the 1/106r). Speed briefly dropped below 47 (46.9) at the summit – but I’m happy to say 47 – if you are, we were now over 5E. Using infrastructure and GPS (mp13 to mp26) in 13m 30s.

One down and next comes Shap, the loco seemed in fine fettle but, after firing for almost 100 miles, how would the fireman be standing up, we were about to find out. As we left Grayrigg and passed under the M6 we had just 5 miles of gradients that provided some gentle assistance before we reached the foot of Shap. On some trips speed recovery can be sluggish, not today.

We were soon hurrying through a very autumnal looking Lune Gorge with speeds of 75/77, then up to 79 as we reached the foot of the 1/146r. Across the Lune (78.7), Tebay S Jn (78.2) now almost 7E, recross the Lune at 77.4. Approaching 2 miles into the climb and 73.9 across Birbeck Viaduct. Now onto the 1/75r and under the Greenholme Rd at 69.9, we approached the gallery at Scout Green (62.7) and past the site of the old box at 59.5. We were still above 50 as we crossed the road to the Shap Wells Hotel (50.2). We passed the site of the landslip where orange clad workers were strung out behind the walls on both sides of the cutting, like a weird industrial-themed recreation of a scene from Zulu. We reached the footbridge (climbing summit) at 46.1. By the time we passed the summit board speed had increased to 47.7 and we were a little over 10E. Shap Trial time (mp31½ to mp37¼), 5m 30s.

Speed built quickly, 75 at Harrisons Sidings. Running comfortably down the hill we eventually stopped (8E) in pl3 at Penrith and took water. 7½E we were on our way again for a gentle run to Carlisle. We were held for a couple of minutes at Upperby Bridge Jn and finally stopped in pl3 (RT), after a more than excellent run.

We wandered to the front to admire the loco and a chat with the driver. Whilst we were there Gordon Hodgson appeared and needed no second invitation to scamper up onto the footplate and take his position the driver’s seat – a memorable moment!

It was time for lunch.

[I’m not going to be able to finish the report today, so I will complete it later, hopefully tomorrow or Sunday]

 

On the first point you do if you need it for turning the stock which is needed at Carlisle (I assume that leaving the stock in the station and just turning the loco just cannot be accommodated at Carlisle any more) , plus if you don't attach it to the train and send it up separately, I assume you will also have an additional cost payable to NR for another service having to be accommodated and incurring track access costs.

Similarly on the second point it works for LSL 'cos they have a depot at Carlisle (which they will have had to spend a further large lump of cash on), I suppose that WCR could leave a loco permanently stabled at Carlisle*, but that would obviously a) leave an asset not earning its keep for 6 days a week and b) incur siding access costs?

* Actually if the rumours that WCR either have obtained or are bidding for the new WCML thunderbird contract (hence the reactivation of the Dellner coupling on the Class 57), this might become an option albeit I suppose it would mean that when it was shunting rail tour stock it would not be available for thunderbird duties which would possibly breach any service contract, digressing, I note that there was a suggestion that the reason that the 390 was rescued from Shap by DRS to Carlisle and then onward to Polmadie by WCR was because the removal and line clearing was a thunderbird job but subsequent stock movement wasn't ?

 

You may not have needed fuel for the 37, but I guess it did not drive itself during the ECS moves.

 

Maybe also because Carnforth is south of Shap and the DRS 57 was already at Carlisle? There usually seems t be one there when I have visited. Long LE move via the S & C if WCRC did the first move.