The Royal Scot, Thursday 6/11/25

I’m willing to bet a) that income at best covered direct operating costs for the day and b) the nature of this trip meant that this didn’t matter.

I’ve no problem with people taking advantage of a good deal, and am delighted it went so well. But when a generally sensible poster comments that this success means that more such trips should be possible, but the prices for less good tours are significantly higher, my reaction is to ask about costs and profits, because they will determine what opportunities we get.

I’ve seen a mail advertising a positioning trip for a railtour between Christmas and New Year. With diesel haulage, and a bit of a circular route to make an event of it, it’s still £79. That tells me a lot about the sheer scale of costs these days, and therefore what is likely to be possible.

 

Yes beware of advanced ticket prices. I have a dispute with East Mid trains at the moment. Booked on the day I had a email from them , 3 months advance for my journey, only to find out it was halve that a few day before I went. No wonder it takes them weeks and weeks to reply to complaints, they must be flooded out with them.

 

If it’s the tour I think it is, it doesn’t return you to the starting point so there will be the added expense of transport to/from your home.

 

Indeed.

 

That’s how advance tickets work I’m afraid. They start them out based on the usual demand of those trains, and prices fluctuate depending on the actual demand.

I’ve known it cheaper to buy a First class single the day before a standard day single just because the demand hasn’t been there so they go for cheap. I’ve also known nearly the whole advance quota be sold for both classes and the advance tickets be more than the day tickets.

 

My ticket was for a late Saturday Corby train from St Pancras to Kettering .Its nothing unusual to see these trains run half empty at the best of times north of Bedford. Sometimes a train goes from Kettering to Corby and return with no passengers on. I was the only one left in the coach when I alighted.

 

Put this together in a more forensic way than David, based on the timings, speeds at gradient changes etc.

The Royal Scot 6th November 2025

Our day - mostly about timing and context.

We were lucky to book on the train as we were down in Southampton seeing our friends off on P&Os Aurora after a very pleasant lunch in the Dancing Man when the emails hit inboxes and I didn't check mine until lunchtime on the 22nd. Fortunately I secured a 4+2 in First and wondered who would come with this time. Alan (Big Al) did and we were happy for him to join us. He was the only one who could. No worries.

Like many or most we were more than half expecting the train not to run after the derailment on Shap. Network Rail worked some magic and the line was open with only a minor ESR on both lines. We played safe and stayed in the Premier Inn Central. Got there in one car this time. No. 19 looking smart with his new alloy, and for safety sake, a new pair of front tyres. He passed his wheel alignment and health check and performed faultlessly. We were up a bit early and after an excellent freshly cooked breakfast we wandered over to the station.

On P12 as we watched 71000+POB, we were taken aback by the superb paintwork on both his Lordship and the POB. Stunning. We watched Andania draw the train into the station and saw Coach E behind the Generator Car. Sadly it was a case of 'To 'e or not to 'e; that is the question...' as some old bloke wrote a long time ago. We were politely dispatched to the 'other' E, one from the rear of the consist. C'est la vie.

Alan was there and we had the table for 2 on the milepost side. Diana, Red Bear and his Minder had the table for 4. Wandered up front to see the locomotive close up and my goodness, what a paintjob. Never heard as many comments about the quality of paintwork. Back to coach E after a stop for a blow up!! We've always loved the Chime Whistle the Duke has and long blast saw us away 3 down. Easy to make up with load 10.

The outward journey

It's been a long time since I timed Crewe to Carnforth. Do remember mileposts are all shapes and sizes and all over the place when they're there. MP 158 was out of sight but just over a coach length in front of us. Near enough for a zero starting point. 4 miles of level track to start our 141 mile journey to Carlisle and Mike eased his lordship out past the Heritage Centre and out onto the fast. 2 miles out we were up to 48; 3 miles out 49; end of the level 53.4. It's an undulating road for a long time with the steepest gradient 132r all the way to Wigan. Mileposting wasn't helped by the freight on our inside. We think the driver was doing a bit of parallel running. Al told us it was the train that made them late on the way to Crewe earlier.

A few miles of falling gradients, 411f/616f/300f took us to 71.7 at Winsford, mp165 1/4, 300f. Next came a mile of 2220f, left at 71.4; 2 miles of 419f to mp168 1/4, passed at 72. Bit of a climb up a 1 1/4m of 360r to Hartford, left at 52 at mp170; then 1981f/440f/level/330f to mp173 3/4, passing Acton Bridge, mp172 1/2, 330f at 63 and left at 70ish. We passed Weaver Jn, mp174 1/4, start of a1 1/4m of 330r at 71.1 and lost no speed worth mentioning. Down 1 1/4m of 180f, left at 77.9 when the brakes kicked in gently. Bit of 112f - hard to hold back, 78.5. Don't think that's unreportable.

Almost 2m of 567f then, left at mp178 3/4 at 78.3 led us onto a noisy bit even for us 9 back; a mile of 135r to Acton Grange Jn, mp180 1/4, 72. 1 1/4m of 135f saw us pick the speed back up and on 3/4m of 440r we snarled through Warrington Bank Quay at 75. Loved that. More rising gradients than falling now, though none 'significant'. At mp183 we had a mile of 1010f, left at 73; followed by 1 1/4m of 639r to Winwick Jn, passed through at 73.5. Then a steeper 21/2m of 132r/470r/255r/156r took us to mp187 3/4, 156r/473r, speed 70.6. we passed Golbourne Jn where the mileposts change for the run to Preston. We crossed the junction, 473r, at 71. Onto a mile+ of 473r, left at mp2 at 71.8; onto close to 2 miles of 417r left at mp175 1/4 at 70 ish.

What an entertaining run. Down a mile+ of 180f speed rose to 78.5 at mp177. The brakes came in and speed fell a little down the 567f to mp178 3/4, passed at 77.5. Gravity plays a part. Bit of level to mp179 1/2, 78.3; then onto 2m+ of 135r where we passed Acton Grange Jn, 180 1/4, at 71.6 and left it at Mp182 at 75.5. down a bit of 460f to Warrington Bank Quay, chime whistle to the fore, on the start of a mile of 400r at 75. Bit of sound drifted back on the curve and the white smoke was good to see. Jack had been doing a lot of work running at these speeds.

A respite 1 1/2m of 1010f, left at mp184 1/4 at 73.4 led to a mile+ of 132r and more noise around. We came off it at mp186 1/2 at 71.1 and the 255r/156r to mp188 only saw a fall to 70.5 just before Golbourne Jn, 70.3. 1 1/2m of 473r didn't affect us, neither did close to 2 miles of 417r where, in the last mile, we picked up to 74.7. Mike must have been enjoying himself. A mile of level to mp5 saw speed held around 73 From mp5 there's 1/4m of 705r with Springs Branch Jn in the middle, 73.5. a bit of 150r saw the Duke snarl up through Wigan North Western, mp6 1/2 ish at 73.7. Shortly after we hit the 2 miles of 104r up Boars Head Bank. Horribly short of mileposts. Saw mp7 1/4, 73.3; mp8 1/1, 68; and mp 8 3/4, 67.8 but not mp9. Still climbing at 366r for over a mile, mp10, 68.8; then 292r/115r to mp11 1/4, passed at 66.8. an excellent bit of climbing.

Relief for Jack for a few miles of average 225f to mp13 1/4, then over a mile of 115f, with Balshaw Lane, mp14 1/4, 77.9 just before the end. 1 1/2m of 936r saw speed fall to 68ish before more downgrade, Euxton Jn, mp16 1/4, 67.3; Leyland, 314f, mp17 1/2ish. Over Farington Jn at mp19, 64.5, eased, then a run down to Ribble Jn, mp21 1/4, 397r, 27.7. we ran through Preston P3 at 26 and didn't work too hard up the 2 1/4m of 503r, max 44.9 at mp2 1/4, into Barton Loop where we were taking water. The tanker was a few hundred yards from the locomotive but they got the tender filled enough for us to leave pretty much RT.

Al and I reflected on the average speed from Crewe as we'd only taken 57m 13.3s to get here, 55.53 miles out. A bit of math indicated we were even time probably to Ribble Jn, just below Preston. Excellent running. Julian joined us for a chat and we sort of set a challenge for speeds over Yealand, Grayrigg and Shap Summits. Will tell all when we pass them.

Well watered the chime whistle sounded and we left for the challenging run up to and over the Northern Fells. A nice 2 miles of 1115f, left at 26.3; then 2 1/2m of 644f, left at 60.5 gave us a good head start. Bit of level then gentle climbing at 1042r from mp8 1/4. We passed Garstang just before mp9 1/2 at 66 and left the section at 67.1. mile of level saw speed rise to 68. Another gentle climb, mile+ of 1199r, left at 68.6 at mp13 1/4 gave to 4 miles of level track. We passed Bay Horse - though the bear and his minder complained they didn't see it - at68 near mp15 1/7; Calgate, mp16 3/4, at 61.5 just after braking. At mp17 1/4 we hit a close to 3 miles of 736r, Oubeck at mp18 passed at mp18 and leaving it at 55.5 at mp19 3/4.

Down the 98f into Lancaster Castle, 74, then on falling gradients 305f/469f passed Morecambe South Jn, close to mp2 - they changed again - at 77.6. past Hest Bank, level, Mp3 ish at 78.1 and onto 1 3/4m of 460r, on at 77, off at 75 at mp5 1/2. Familiar territory now as we passed Carnforth U&DGL, 77 with a long pull on the chime whistle. We passed mp6 3/4, level, at 79.3 and set about the climb of Yealand Bank, 2 1/2m of 134r. This is a challenge for a locomotive starting with a green fire from Carnforth but we hadn't and passed the summit between mp9 1/4 and 9 1/2 at 67. I got that one exactly; Alan chose 63 and Julian 63.

Nice to have 1 3/4m of 293f to recover and they did, passing mp10 3/4 at 72.6. 2 miles on the level took us to 78.5 at mp12 3/4! Nice to have that as from mp13 there's a punishing 13 mile climb to Grayrigg Summit. It starts with 3 miles of 173r. On this we passed. We passed Milnthorpe, mp13 1/2, at 77.2; mp14 1/4 at 71.3; mp15 at 63.1; Hincaster Jn, mp15 1/2 at 60.9 and mp17 1/4 at 63. At times on the left curves we heard his lordship 9 back, and still the smoke was white and clean. Green signals as far as the eye could see - though we could see a rain band crossing in front of us. From mp17 1/2 we hit a mile of 111r, left at 59.5 and the track looked damp/wet as we hit the cuttings. At mp18 1/2 it eased to 176r for 1 1/2m. We passed mp19 at 59.6; snarled through Oxenholme Lake district at 59.8 and left it at mp19 3/4 at 59. More work for Jack over 3/4m of 104r, left at 56.9. bit of 213r, mp20 1/2, 57.5 took us to 3/4m 124r, left at mp21 1/4 at 55.4. Still 4 3/4m to the summit!!

Now a solid 2 3/4+ of 131r, left at mp23 3/4 at 53.2. Excellent crewing. Jack must have been fed up with this bank but now had to provide steam for the 2m+ of 106r. First we crossed Docker Garth's Viaduct, mp24 at 52.1; over Lambrigg Crossing, mp22 1/4 at 50.9; mp25 at 48.9; mp25 3/4 at 47 and after a 1/4 at 396r we passed the summit, mp26, at 46.6.

I came unstuck badly as I based my choice of 60 on a dry climb. Alan chose 51 and Julian almost spot on at 47.

Passed the siding and mp26 1/4, 204f, at 49.5 and off the 204f at mp27 at 61.4. down a mile of 777f to Low Gill, 65ish; then after 1/2m level and 1 1/2m at 425f, we passed mp30 at 77. Excellent speed to carry onto the approach to Shap and onto the bank. To Tebay on the mile of level, mp31.1/4, 79.7; then onto the 1 3/4m of 146r; North Lune Viaduct, mp32 1/4, 77.2; mp32 3/4, 75.7 and onto the mighty Shap, the summit 4 1/4m of 75r away!! Deep breaths Jack and don't forget the steam powered coal pusher.

A mile in, mp34 was passed at 69.5; a mile further on. Mp35 was passed at 60.5. We passed Scout Green Path just after at 59.7 and speed fell slowly. We passed mp36 at 53.8 with the ESR Flashing Signal at track level. Then the quarters to the summit were: mp36 1/4, 52.3; mp36 1/2, 50.6; mp36 3/4, 49.3; mp37, 47.5 and mp37 1/4, the climbing summit, 46.3. the GPS wavered to a slowest speed between quarters of 45.8. we passed the Plateau Summit, mp37 1/2, at 46.9. Some climb that; kudos to both Mike and Jack. The attrition on the 75r was as near as dammit 29mph, bit higher than expected; and in recent years; and we lost just over 4 mph over the final 3/4 of a mile to mp37 1/4 whereas the trend in recent years has shown locomotives have more or less held their own there.

Back to the predictions and my optimism about dry rails led me to predicting 53; Alan chose 48 and Julian 45. The totals of the summit speeds was 160. Our totals were: Alan 162; Julian 152; and me 180. I declare Alan the winner coming within 2 of the total.

My predictions weren't plucked out of the air but based on the 1995 Shap Trials, when, on the 2nd October, the Duke won handsomely on the big banks by topping Grayrigg Summit, mp26, at 61.3; and after an amazing effort passed Shap Climbing Summit, mp37 1/4, at 50.4 with a heavier load 11. For those who don't know how special that day was, his lordship passed was only doing 57 at the start of the 75r; dropped to 51.3 by mp35 and then only lost 0.9 mph over the last 3/4 of a mile. Don't think anything has come close to an attrition of only 6.6 mph on 4 1/4 miles of 75r.

Back to Thursday. I'm not a fan of recording long downgrade running though this time I tried to time most posts. Summarising; we got to 60 on the 130f at mp38 1/2. Down the mile of 106f speed rose to 72; then down the almost 2 miles of 142f, 75. Then down the close to 7 miles of 125f we passed Shap Harrisons Sidings, mp42, at 76.7, mp43 at 76.9; mp44 at 76; mp45 at 78.6; mp46 at 75; mp47 at 73.6 - brakes checking us - mp48, Eden Valley UGl, 42.9 braking. Not far into Penrith now where we arrived RT. What superb running from Lancaster.

Tender refreshed we left RT down the 616f, mp52 at 36.6. Bit of level, 44.5; then falling or level grades for 16 miles varying from 186f/level/164f/172f/228f, speeds were; mp53, end 539r, 48.5; mp55, end 186f, 68.5; mp57, end level, 67.8; mpmp62, 228f, 65.7; mp64, 184f, 66.3. then we were checked and slowly drifted the final 4 miles to Carlisle Citadel arriving at 1420 1/2 minutes; RT.

Quite magical for a locomotive with so few miles under his belt since returning to the rails after a long, long overhaul. Our last run with his Lordship was a Torbay Express on 12th June 2011!

Right. Went up front to say a big thank you to Mike and Jack and to give them something to enjoy a drink or whatever later. Nice guys. Met Mike a few times over the years. He's matured into an excellent driver.

We fancied a snack so wandered to the Woodrow. Excellent Cowcatcher American Pale Ale. With my Scampi and chips I had an excellent Kirkby Lonsdale Brewery Jubilee Stout. An exceptionally tasty beer. We had plenty of time for a dessert, I had a chocolate brownie with extra Belgian Sauce. Wickedly nice. Di settled on a couple of pancakes. Coffees finished off 'tea' nicely.

The Return journey

It started badly as the 1648 Euston due in to P4 was 12 late due to an issue with a locomotive on a freight. A Birmingham was next on P4; with us 3rd train and due to be 10-15 late. Control sorted it and sent the Brum train to P1 letting the 'Upperby' Class 37 pull the consist into P4 almost on time. A rapid detachment and we were good to go, barely 1 down. Long chime and a careful start, 9.4 at the end of the platform. Not a steep climb southbound but a long one against the grade, we passed Upperby Jn where we encountered the 3 1/2m of 131r. The long layover would have meant the fire was not at its best and Chris, our driver took it easy and gradually built up speed to leave the section at 38. Bit slower than expected but we weren't on the footplate. The gradient eased to 184r for 1 1/2 miles and the easing led to a pickup of 6 mph to 44. We passed mp62 3/4, end of section at 44. Short level bit then back onto more work for our fireman Kian.

We were on close to 3 miles of 228r and passed Southwaite, mp61 3/4 at 49.6; mp61 at 50.7, and held around 50 to the end of section at mp59 3/4. We did hear some sound from the big loco on the curves. Next came 1 3/4 miles at 172r to Calthwaite, roughly mp58 but who knows in the dark?, passed at 48.9. Decent climbing and it was going to be interesting to see how Chris would attack the 3 miles on the level. We passed mp57 at 51.4 and by Plumpton UGL, mp55 3/4, we were bowling along at 60.5. Good sign. We came off the section at 61.9 onto close to 2 miles of 186r where speed held at just over 60. A short 1/2m of 539f saw a rapid pickup to 64 and half a mile of level track saw it rise to almost 66. Long blast on the chime through Penrith North Lakes at 65 on the close to 2 miles of 616r. This ended at mp50 1/2, 65.9. there's an odd quarter at 191f and it was used well as we hit 68. Impressive.

At mp50 back to climbing at 193r for close to a mile, off at 66.9. They needed that sort of speed if not higher as after a mile on the level, off at 67 at mp48, the 7 1/4m of 125r kicked in; a real challenge for our fireman. We passed the end of Eden Valley loop at 63.9, then past mp47 at 62.2. the Duke was feeling the slog and by mpmp45 speed had dropped to 53.8. the next miles bit hard. At mp44 we dipped below 50; at mp43 speed was down to 45.6. More attrition than expected for the big loco. By mp41 speed was 39.7 and thankfully the grade eased to 142r for a mile. Only lost a mile an hour here and on the 1/2m+ on the level he rallied to 46.2. We hit the 106r for the 1 1/2m+ to the summit and we heard much more noise as speed only fell to 45.5 at mp38 1/4 where there was a touch on the brakes for the ESR 40 that resulted from the derailment earlier in the week. We passed the climbing summit at 44.5 and the Summit Marker, mp37 1/2 at 41.7.

We hoped for a summit speed nearer 50 but it was a very good solid climb over the 30 miles most of which was against the grade.

We didn't get a charge down the 75r of Shap. We passed Scout Green Path at 72.5 and ran in the low/mid 70s, leaving the 75r at 73.2. Light braking brought speed down to 67 on the 146f and 66 on the level through Tebay. Up the 1 1/2m of 425r saw the beastie worked more to 69 and we were at 75 at Low Gill. Speed fell on the mile+ of 204r to Grayrigg Summit, mp26, 61. All downgrade to mp13 then. Not a rapid descent down the 131f, left at 65.3; got to 73 on the short 104f; long chime through Oxenholme Lake District, mp19, 67.5 and to 71 after the mile of 111f. Surprisingly speed only briefly got to 71 and on Carnforth Approach the brakes brought us down to 41. We passed Carnforth at 55; Hest Bank at 61 and we drifted up the 469r/305r to Lancaster where we made our water stop 'around the back'. We'd lost 15 minutes to our booked time.

Shades of 46229 in 1996 as we slipped our way up the 98f on departure. Felt like a change of driver as once away, we accelerated down the close to 3 miles of 735f. We passed mp18, Oubeck, at 60 and probably passed Calgate, mp17 - who knew in the dark - at the end of the section at 68.5. Onto 4 miles on the level then. We passed Bay Horse, mp15, at 71 - Red Bear thought he heard a neigh. We came off the section at 75.3 onto basically falling/bit of level for close to 6 miles. Speed was held around 75 and fell a bit to 73 as we hit a climby bit, 2 /12m at 644r, held 73; then 2m at 1115f where we got back to 75 passing Barton Loop. The brakes kicked in as we drifted down to Preston, 29.

A mile+ of 440r started at Ribble Jn, mp21 - saw that - 46.8. heard the loco as we attacked it and got to 51 at Farington Curve Jn, mp19. More rising gradients, 106r/314r/110r/314r then. We passed Farington Jn, mp19, 314r in the mid 50s; through Leyland, 314r, 59.3 and off at Euxton Jn at 60. Chris used the 936f to get to 68 past Balshaw Lane. Up a few miles averaging 150r left at 59 before getting to 76 at mp9, 104f. We ran down Boars Head bank with a max of 78 before firm braking to dash through Wigan North Western at 64.

The landscape wasn't helpful in sighting anything. We clattered across Golbourne Jn, 473f, at 74. Then Alan and I tried to use his amazing schedule of all things that didn't move to find old station sites from over and under bridges, old infrastructure etc. Kept us awake though I'm noyt much use as my night vision ain't the best. Passengers walking past must have thought us mad as Al called out 'after third overbridge'; after an underbridge; some sort of building or other he recognised and the like. Didn't record much and got bored with reading the odometer on my GPS. I recorded Winwick Jn, 72.9; Warrington Bank Quay, spotted the station!! Acton Bridge, 72; Winsford, 53.2 cruising towards Crewe; mp160, 46.3 and getting close to the final signal gantry where we have to pot a red to get a colour to get across to P12. Alan wanted no delays as he hoped to get a faster service train back to the smoke. We were down to 10.3 at Coalyard ... but got the road and stopped at 2028 1/2, a tad early.

Al charged off and thanking the steward and saying our farewells to folk we knew, we strolled back to the Premier Inn Car Park. An uneventful journey back and we were home just before 2300. We had an email from Al telling us he got home safely by 0030.

Well, what can you say? A special late birthday present for me; hit 77 on the 4th. The train did more than a few times. It was a great and memorable day out with the magnificent 71000 on basically a running in turn!! Huge credit to the Trust of which we've been supporters of and contributors to through the Friends of for many years. The unseen 'upgrades' to his lordship will hopefully lead to performances like this one for many years to come.

Thanks to Saphos and LSL for facilitating the unassisted train and for probably taking a hit by setting the fares as low as they did. The quality of their carriages is second to none. Many comments were made about them - and how good it was to have super cleaned windows, inside and out. LSL provided vital input to complete the overhaul and the quality of the paintwork is on another level. Apparently it was prepared and painted by hand. There will be details in magazine articles about that and about the development plan Robert Riddles intended the locomotive to undergo that the Trust has now achieved.

Thanks to LSL's crews who more than did us proud all day. Skilful driving by Mike, Chris and we think Andy; excellent firing by Jack and Kian who I bet were happy to have a locomotive with a steam powered coal pusher available to them. Thanks to the support crew who usually work out of sight managing the water stops and any coal deliveries/loading; our guards, train manager, stewards and Buffet Staff who looked after us well all day.

Can't forget Network Rail for letting us still have proper steam on the mainline in 2025. We had good paths and they sorted the chaos out in Carlisle to make sure we had a prompt departure.

P.S. Special thanks to those who've posted all the superb photos and filming footage posted. Makes our day, especially us at the back of the train.

 

Thanks for the report, just to let you know the fireman on the return was Kian Steed, Severn Valley driver and a great guy!

 

Thanks for the detailed report. Going back into the 196os, so far I can only find a Black 5 run I timed from Crewe to Carlisle. Not quite in the same league as the superb run you had north with the Duke - John Wayne would have been proud of it! But the 4-6-0 did make ok use of gravity after Shap with 81 mph max.

Your return run wasn't the same style as the outward, but reflecting your words, I wasn't on the footplate. And from the various comments here this was maybe a sort of main line final running in turn?

I doubt even a Brit coming south over Shap without a helper would get me back to a long day to time it. But when doing my Short-eared Owl study I regularly drove the M6 over Shap in that direction, and always, without fail, could hear 70032 on 11 for 395t gross making an incredible two cylinder 'chomp' all the way up that climb on the 14.00 Glasgow, 16.52 Penrith - August 1967.

I can't find a typed up (via a spreadsheet) version of my original log, so I don't think brother @gricerdon has used it in one of his many magazine articles yet. So, subject to me needing to check it all on a spreadsheet one day, we were 12 3/4 late off Penrith and 2 early into the booked stop at Oxenholme. Done in 35 mind 15 secs from the Penrith start. My unchecked notes say 52 mph at Eden Valley Jctn, 50 mph near MP 46, back up to 52 mph, an overall minimum of 47.5 mph at MP 42, 49 mph at MP 40, then 54.5 mph at Shap Quarry? dropping to 52 mph at what my notes suggest was the real summit? Then eased to 50 mph at Shap Summit. Followed by gravity giving 86 mph near Tebay. I think that was my first timing run on that route in that direction so I didn't know where inaccurate MPs etc were (as I did on the Southern Regions steam lines out of Waterloo) or which 1/4 mile to stopwatch for accurate variations on the climb. But if/when I get round to typing it onto a spreadsheet I'll also check RPS for any other versions as it was a popular gricing train. Anyway, I think it was a very good run with a Brit on 11.

Bryan

 

I wasn’t on that but had a run in the 1400 with 70039 which topped Shap at 44 on 11 374/410 tons on August 26th from memory

Don

 

Its all a question of philosophy! That being 'less is more'.Whatever you do should be repeatable time after time after time.

What is the maximum sustainable output of a 'single' fireman? Then you all you have to do is match the output of the engine to that and maintain a never changing water level in the glass once the exhaust injector is on. In this case 20% up Grayrigg and 25% up the last 2 miles of Shap. Those two should always be considered as a single obstacle not two.

What happens after in terms of speed and time on the climbs is of no real consequence. You could push it harder and end up with filthy smoke, a messy footplate, a dirty face and shirt and a tired fireman. Thats not for us.

 

For anyone interested :

The outbound delay with D213 was due to a late running 4M45 02.50 Felixstowe North to Garston FLT with 66567 which was followed through Northampton and Rugby. 71000 then ran alongside and overtook the same freight working before Acton Bridge I believe?

The slight delay on departure from Carlisle was not helped by the heavily delayed (+205) 4M46 DRS Coatbridge to Daventry containers that ran through P4 at Carlisle with 66427 dragging a failed/dead 88010 Aurora and it's containers.

 

The Royal Scot 06 November 2025 with 71000 Duke of Gloucester hauling 8 + POB + Generator Car (Part 2)

[Apologies for the delay which left everyone at Carlisle (without their lunch)]

Before leaving the station, Ralph and I waited on platform 4 to watch the ECS being hauled out of the station by LSL’s ScotRail liveried 37, 37409 Loch Awe. We had passed the 37 earlier, when it was waiting in the sidings at Upperby, as we had headed into the station. Duties completed we wandered down to the Woodrow Wilson for some lunch, it was approaching 3pm and by now even the Wetherspoon’s food seemed appealing (possibly!) With no other plans we idled our time away. Being after 2pm, I got fish, chips and peas together with a large soft drink all for just £7.77; it might not be the best food in the world but there’s no denying it’s cheap!

Our train was due out at 17.14 so after a very enjoyable catch up, and with over 30 minutes to spare, we made our way back to the station. There was what might become an issue, we were due to leave from platform 4 (at 17.14) but because of problems further north, there were some platform changes, 9M59 Glasgow to London Euston, with a planned departure of 17.11, had been moved to platform 4. With our ECS due in from the south that was never going to work. Happily, someone realised the conflict and 9M59 was moved to platform 1, we would follow from platform 4 – crisis averted.

The stock arrived behind 37409 and with the whole train having been turned we remained in the last coach – hey ho (again), although I knew that was how it was going to be.

Clear southbound paths over Shap from Carlisle are not easy to find, but credit to LSL they found one with no stops until the water stop at Lancaster. The path called for some smart running with 69 minutes allowed for the 69 miles to Lancaster. Mile-a-minute timings are difficult enough to achieve even when they don’t involve a climb of almost 800ft in the first 31 miles.

If this wasn’t challenging enough, we were due to be followed by 2 Trans Pennine services; the first, 1M91, was booked to leave pl4 20mins later (17.34) with 1M77 following, again from pl4, a further 8mins later (17.42). Both had an allowance of only 52mins to Lancaster, including stops at Penrith and Oxenholme, such is the speed of today’s railway. We were scheduled to stop in pl5 at Lancaster at 18.23 and 1M91 was to booked to stop in pl4 at 18.26. It was going to be a close-run thing, but this morning’s run had given cause for optimism. [1M91 – Edinburgh to Man Airport and 1M77 - Glasgow to Liverpool LS.]

With everyone safely boarded and with Chris Page driving and Kian Stead firing we left almost 2 minutes late, the 69 mins had become 67! It is not the easiest of starts from Carlisle, in less than a mile the line starts to climb at 1/131 and the loco needs some time to get into her stride. Darkness had fallen and on a calm warm day there would be potential for dew to form on the rail head making for possible adhesion issues. The “mood lighting” in the carriage meant I had to use a torch to see the screen on my GPS recorder, but fear not the gadget was recording exactly what was going on and the data could be downloaded later.

We passed Upperby Bridge Jn (1.4miles from the start at 30 mph & 5L), almost 4miles out and under the M6 at 36.5mph. The gradient eases to 1/228, and at Southwaite (7.4miles) we were up to 50mph & 8L. We were steadily losing time, I began to wonder if we might be looped as early as Plumpton (13miles), but speed built and we sped past the loop at 59mph and still 8L. How was 1M91 doing? It had left Carlisle 3mins earlier (RT) – you can’t rely on TP for anything!

By now speed had improved and we sped through Penrith at 64 (looked good on the vids). It was 17.42 (we were 8L) and 1M91 had already passed Southwaite and 1M77 had just left Carlisle (RT) – the chase was on! We forged on, up to 67 at Yanwath and past Eden Valley Loop (21.5miles) at 65 & 8L and almost onto the climb proper with around 7.5miles of 1/125. In the 10th coach I recorded 62.3mph as we reached the foot of the 1/125r. At Clifton & Lowther (22.2miles) speed had fallen to 60.5 but we were now only(?) 7L. (1M91 was nearing its Penrith stop).

With just over 1.5miles of the 1/125 to go, we passed Thrimby Grange (26.2miles) at 45. We never seemed to recover with speeds in the high 30s as we passed Shap village. On the level approaching the summit speed did increase to the low 40s with 41.5 at the summit board but 10L. (1M91 was nearing Harrisons Sidings and had almost caught us up). No matter how fast we went down the hill 1M91 would catch us. Would we be looped at Tebay or Grayrigg?

After the 40mph speed limit at the site of the landslip we did gather some speed with 74 at Scout Green, 70 at Tebay but only 61 at Grayrigg (10L). We put on a show for the watchers at Oxenholme 70 but 10L. By Carnforth (54mph) we were 11L. We eventually stopped for water at Lancaster (14L). 1M91 stopped not long afterwards and left 15L, 1M77 was not far behind and left 10L, both services left Preston 5L with not too much damage done (by us).

The platform lay just the other side of the window, but the much-needed leg-stretch was denied, there were plenty of aching knees and backs just crying out for a bit of an evening stroll. After watering we moved off 3L, the start from pl5 was never going to be easy with a curve, points and straight onto around a mile of 1/98r. The soundtrack told the story as the driver skilfully encouraged the loco to find her feet, a further 4 minutes elapsed before 71000 was providing some steady acceleration. Around Lancaster S Jn we reached 20mph, this first 0.3miles had taken 5mins.

The schedule allowed 89mins for the 72miles to Crewe, we were already 7L but 71000 was warming to the task. We passed Oubeck loops at 58 but 9L but 71000 eased up to her max permitted speed, down to 7L at Garstang (75), only 6L as we passed Barton & Broughton (75) before we began slowing for Preston. Thro’ Preston (5L).

The 5L persisted as, to a great soundtrack, we climbed south from Preston, 54 at Farington Jn and just touched 60 as we passed thro’ Leyland. The run continued at pace, Euxton Jn (a smidge under 60), past Euxton Balshaw Lane (67), down to 62 at Balshaw Lane (but 4L). We continued the climb up to Coppull with a min. of 57 and, as we dropped down towards Wigan, we reached 76 on the curving approach to the station. We hurried through the platforms at Wigan NW, with a good blast on the whistle, at 64 (4L). Up to 75 at Springs Branch (3L), Bamfurlong Jn (74 & 3L), Golborne Jn (76 & 2L) and Winwick Jn (73 & 1L). Some lovely fast running and we were almost back in path. Finally, at Dallam Jn, we were RT and a couple of minutes later we rushed through Warrington BQ at 71 and a tad early, I’m sure those on the platforms must have enjoyed the spectacle.

The good running continued; Acton Grange Jns (70 & 1E), Weaver Jn (65 & 6E) and Acton Bridge (71 & 6E). We slowed before Hartford (45 & 5E) then switched to the slow line at Winsford (53 & 5E), for the last few miles to Crewe, we were passed by something heading south on the fast. As we neared Crewe we slowed waiting for the signals to clear before we could cross to pl 12, down to 2.5mph and then away, non-stop into Crewe (3E).

To the sound of creaking knees many of the passengers got off, either for a much longed-for stretch or to make their way home after what had been a very, very enjoyable day out. There were plenty of familiar faces only a few some of whom I managed to speak with. Ralph and I wandered back to the car park to see if we could remember where we had parked our cars. I finally found mine and ate a snack (pork pie) before beginning my drive home a few minutes after 9pm. The satnav decided to take me on the shorter route, via the M6 and M62E, this was fine apart from a potentially dangerous manoeuvre when approaching roadworks. Leaving the M60 and immediately on joining the M62E the inside 3 lanes were shown closed on the overhead gantries with only the RH lane open, this required a merge into a single lane of traffic approaching uphill from behind (not easy in the dark).

I arrived home at 10.20 (and now for the bit that Bryan was waiting for) Maisie, who had been fast asleep in her bed for the previous 4 hours, left her bed, gave my hand a few head rubs, yawned and went back to bed. A great welcome home.

Thanks to: Ralph for his enjoyable company throughout the day. The two guys from Ashton in Makerfield with whom we shared a table, good to meet you. Saphos for arranging the trip and making tickets available to the public. The guy who reworked the northbound times to give a better path over Grayrigg and Shap. The LSL crews who worked on the footplate and showed just what a big loco can do with a light load. The LSL team who worked behind the scenes, coal, water, servicing and much, much more. The BR Class 8 Locomotive Trust for the use of their magnificent machine (and what a splendid sight it was). All at NR who worked to get the route open and the signallers/controllers who allowed us to continue southbound over Shap despite losing time. TP for their forbearance as we delayed their services, but they’ve done it to others (many, many times). Michael Fish for the weather. All those who posted videos and photos. Finally, to Gordon Hodgson for being there.

[In deference to Maisie the locomotive was never referred to by the initials of its name].

 

Absolutely brilliant... knees tell me about them...other parts available...

 

Well worth waiting for, many thanks. And I assume that tumultous (by cat standards) welcome back home by Maisie was a thank you for not using the D. *. G. word.

Bryan

 

Thanks for that. Will drop his correct name in.

 

Nothing to do with me, but some video of the movements at Carlisle, possibly also of interest to anyone interested in the layout at Upperby these days.

 

Quite a soundtrack this close up !