Craven South London 0-4-4T

This is the unique Craven 0-4-4T of the LBSCR, part of a series of mostly 0-4-2Ts of various configurations, collectively known as the South London Tanks.

I have a couple of questions.

Given the absence of side tanks, I would guess that this is a well tank, but it may be carrying water below the bunker, too. Does that make it also a back tank?

Does the Whyte Notation included the tank configuration? If so, is there any notation for a mixed configuration, e.g. 0-4-4BWT? All the online sources that I have seen refer to this loco as an 0-4-4T.

 

https://loco-info.com/view.aspx?id=14604&cookies=accept

I can't see any well tanks in that photo. The above link gives some descriptions about it and the others, but simply says "The 231 delivered in the same month showed even greater differences, which had a bogie instead of a trailing axle due to significantly increased supplies." I'm guessing the water tanks were the ones either side of the boiler, and behind the rear weatherboard, below the flare on the bunker. There appears to be a pipe coming from the bottom of the side tank which I assume would link up to injectors or a water pump.

 

The only space for a well tank is surely beneath the coal bunker. forward of that, the space between the frames will be occupied by the firebox, crank axle, motion rods and then the cylinders!

 

As usual with Craven locos, sorting it all out is complicated, given he seemingly never went beyond two locos of a type before changing the design!

Checking sources:

Bradley (RCTS) prints the same photo as the OP and labels that "the only Craven 0-4-4 Well Tank". However, he makes no mention of the arrangements in the main text, beyond noting a water capacity of 550 gallons. Interestingly, that figure matches Nos 214/5 which are described as having "had a small tank under the cylinders, a second between the trailing wheels and a third beneath the coal space in the bunker."

The 1903 "Locomotives of the LBSCR" (unknown author) makes no reference.

Ahrons calls the locomotive a "back tank".

All three authors note that the locomotive was essentially very similar to the Cudworth 235 class on the South Eastern Railway. Bradley describes these as "Well Tanks" with capacity increased (over the earlier 205 series 0-4-2Ts) to 850 gallons of water and 1.25 tons of coal. There is a photo of a 235 with the coal well-stacked up behind the weathboard, indicating that at least some (but maybe not all) of that space was for coal. Quite possible it was basically a tank with the coal piled on top.

It does look to me that there is a water filler in the bunker, but that doesn't prove where the water is. My best guess though is that most, if not all of it, is in the bunker.

Whyte notation: that is essentially a 20th century thing, so regardless of how these might be classified, they would have been long scrapped before it ever became an issue. I suspect at the time they would have been known as "four coupled bogie passenger tank" or similar - like the long-lived North Eastern Railway "BTPs" ("Bogie Tank Passenger").

Tom

 

I can't see anywhere that a tank could be put except under the coal bunker. If its capacity was a mere 500 gallons, as Tom has said, there's plenty of room Let's say 6.5 ft wide and 5 feet long. That's 32.5 sq feet on tank area. At 6.25 gal.cu ft it only needs a tank some 2'-6" high. That would leave plenty of room on top for coal.

 

Attached photo from RCTS book is of No 243 from Patrick Stirling 120-Class 0-4-4BT, of which 46 were built for the GNR in 1872-81. Water supply is stated to have been in a single tank above the bunker, measuring 6ft 11in wide, 4ft 0in high and a shade over 5ft long, holding 1000 gallons. Above the tank was space for 1½ tons of coal, later increased to 2½ tons with fitting of coal rails and removal of the tool box.

Not sure about the precise tank measurements above, which I think amount to around 900 gallons. But at least it's the right order of magnitude.

 

This is the Cudworth 235 class from the South Eastern Railway (delivered July - August 1866; shown as later reboilered by James Stirling around 1880 - 1883). These are generally considered to be the first 0-4-4T to run in this country and thus the forerunners of what became essentially the standard passenger tank loco layout for most of the pre-grouping companies.



You have to assume that Craven was aware of these locos. You wonder if Craven saw them and then changed his mind on his own design, since Bradley states

"Craven's last engine for the South London Line was commenced as another 0-4-2 double framed tank, but during construction was redesigned and when it left Brighton works in November 1866 as an ungainly 0-4-4 tank few would have recognised any resemblance to the earlier engines."
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So you wonder if Craven started on an 0-4-2 but then saw the Cudworth locos and decided to try something similar for himself?

It is surprising that Craven only got 550 gallons in his when Cudworth managed 850, but maybe the hurried change in design had something to do with that, or maybe he just felt 550 was sufficient for the duties envisaged. Certainly the water capacities of the South London Tanks are all over the place:

• 212 (0-4-2T, inside frames, 1865) - 355 gallons side tanks, 290 gallons well tank, 645 gallons total
• 213 (0-4-2T, double frames, 1865) - 545 gallons side tanks, 255 gallons well tank, 800 gallons total
• 230 (0-4-2T, inside frames, 1866) - 580 gallons side tanks, 220 gallons well tank, 800 gallons total
• 214/5 (0-4-2T, outside frames, 1865) - 550 gallons well tank, 550 gallons total
• 17, 216/7/8 (0-4-2T, outside frames, 1866) - 630 gallons side tanks, 270 gallons well tank, 900 gallons total
• 231 (0-4-4T, double frames, 1866) - 550 gallons total

Craven thus contrived to ensure the largest of the locos, presumably designed with increased capacity in mind, had the lowest water capacity of the lot!

Tom

 

Look at that coal! Some poor fireman is going to be doing a lot of breaking up!

Tom

 

Thanks for all your replies. I'm going to assume that the loco in question was a pure 0-4-4 Back Tank.

This drawing of the earlier South London Tank, no 369, which is listed as an 0-4-2WT, distinctly shows a large tank below the frames at the front of the loco. There is no such structure under no 231, and given its modest water capacity it's fair to assume that the tank was below the coal space.

 

Only one way to find out...New build!

 

Good idea. What colour should we paint it?

 

Black

 

Quite a contrast to the dross on the Cudworth (which probably cost more into the bargain, being 'south of the river').
Pat

 

You make an interesting observation about Cudworth of the SER introducing the 0-4-4T type, which was to be become so popular in Britain and Ireland for short-distance passenger duties. These early 0-4-4Ts were double-framed back/well-tanks; the inside-framed side-tank 0-4-4T seems to have first been built for the GER in 1872/3 by Samuel Johnson, just before he moved to the MR and built a lot more.

https://www.gersociety.org.uk/locomotives/sw-johnson/no-134

The last of this line was a batch built by the LMS in 1932 and nominally attributed to William Stanier.

The 0-4-4T found much less favour overseas, as seen in the chart below. Only four other European countries are listed, and not many British Empire territories.

https://www.steamlocomotive.com/locobase.php?wheel=0-4-4

The 0-4-4 back-tank with outside cylinders was used on some USA urban lines, where it was known as the "Forney Type". Engines of similar configuration were built in Britain in the 1870s for the Caledonian Rly, and also for India's metre-gauge lines.