Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Never heard thay one before Big Al.

But it's a good one!

Maybe even better than the theory that the steam hauled trains had to be slowed/stopped so the slow shutter speed of the Woking signalman's cameras could get decent photos!

Sometimes you could get through fast. Like Ed Saunders and fireman Young with 35003 on the up ACE in 1962 when we went though Woking at 92 mph. Even at a very young age I think I moved two of my fingers from my stopwatch as we passed the signal box! Probably get moderated, banned or even worse these days for even thinking that.

Did I ever say what a considerable number of us used to do just as we passed the new power box at Basingstoke when they tried to compete with Woking?

Probably not. Clues are the very end vestibule of the coaches and direct disposal onto the track! Timing was everything!!!

But we were young and innocent(ish) at the time. So don't tell me off now. Please.

 

KentYeti,

You have no reason for getting banned for anything - Just like me (Bulleid thru and through!) ;-)

 

You are a good man!

 

You too mate - Looking forward to seeing you at the Reunion! ;-)

 

This log will appear in one or two other places. It has already got me the very sad news that fireman Peter Allen died just a few years ago at the age of just 61. It would have been so nice to have met up with him again to talk of the "old days" and the working partnership he had with Fred Hoare.

It is my best down ACE run.

Interesting to compare the time to passing Worting Junction with that Wayne set recently with the same loco. Wayne did 49 mins 10 secs, three minutes slower than the down ACE. But the recent run lost a full minute because of the Windsor line start and no banker. Plus two extra coaches and a 75 mph limit that obviously wasn't in place in the 1960s.

 

Bryan

Your qualifying remarks that 35028's recent run was only 3 minutes slower than the 1964 log; despite being a heavier train, from Windsor side and max 75mph. Surely suggest that Clan Line is better now than it was then?

 

That more or less goes without saying. The crews that operate it will tell you that as a traction unit it is more effective than anything else they currently use on passenger trains. Certainly significantly superior to a class 47. The reason is of course that it is well looked after and always turned out in appropriate condition. No dirty tubes etc to hinder performance. It's not the only steam engine to out perform what the class did in daily service.

 

No way of telling if Clan Line is better now. But I think with Wayne at the controls, a normal exit from Waterloo and no 75 mph speed limit she would do that ACE run again without any problems. But Wayne cannot do that as he has to follow the current speed limits!

But let's not kid ourselves. With everything I timed and know about behind MNs after that run on the down ACE, it is clear to me it was no where near the ultimate performance on that route with a MN. Rev J.E.T. Phillips did time an up run with 35020 with 12 cars in1962 with a net time of 68 mins 30 secs. 4 minutes faster than the net time I had on the down ACE with Fred Hoare. I doubt that was the ultimate performance for a MN as the Nine Elms crew must have eased back after the 100 mph below Basingstoke! Subsequent events showed that. i.e 35028, (again), reaching 103 on near level track at Fleet on an up Bournemouth line train after the 65 mph restriction at Worting Junction.

And I think it was the late Reuben Hendicott who got 35005 past Hook with 11 on just under 3 minutes faster than the ACE run I timed behind Fred Hoare! With a really fast descent through Andover and then down Porton, (where skill with the brake would have been more important than loco steam pressure), that would have pointed to a circa 68 minute run to a Salisbury! But Reuben was on the 08.30 to Bournemouth that day, and started to get signal checks at Basingstoke as he was running rather early!

One limiting factor on the down ACE was of course that the Salisbury top link crew driving from Waterloo had to hand the loco over in a good state to the Exmouth Junction crew who took over at Salisbury. They then had the difficult switch back route onto Exeter. I have no doubt from my conversations with those Salisbury men, that it was a matter of honour to hand the loco over in the best possible condition. Not with a fire that had largely been spread over Surrey, Hampshire and Wiltshire on the way down from Waterloo!

 

Funnily enough Impala we've had a discussion on current loco performance on the "round robin" email group I am in. Timers and locos crews from the 1960s mainly.

I am told by those who know better than me that It is the MN that HAS NOT out performed itself in terms of 1960s indicated h.p. in recent years. Equalled 1960 performance yes, (circa 3,000 i.h.p). But the Duchess, A4s and rebuilt West Country, (34027 I am told), have performed close to 10 % better in terms of i.h.p than their best in normal steam days. Maybe that means that during their swan song the MN's were pushed to their limits more than the other classes were in their own swan songs. I'm not sure about that. But it could have happened.

That does not mean that 35028 is not in superb condition these days. And not being driven with great skill when the opportunity arises.

The class were much under rated by many in the 1960s. But a number of us were privileged to see that they were very powerful and very fast steam locomotives. I shall never, ever forget that night when I stood behind driver Fred Burridge and watched as he took 35003 in dreadful mechanical state by then, up to 106 mph near Fleet starting from Basingstoke with an albeit light weight train. He never used full regulator, and the cut off was relatively low throughout. Two days later with the same loco and similar load he reached 105 mph at the same location on the same train. And I strongly suspect with the same relatively gentle driving technique.

Clan Line is undoubtedly in a much better mechanical state now than 35003 was then!

And picking up your point about a 47 class Impala, I doubt very much that a class 47 could top Roundwood summit on the full load up Bournemouth Belle, still accelerating at 76 mph, as 35012 did with Gordon Hooper at the controls on 4th April 1965!

And wouldn't it be great to give Clan Line a chance to do that these days!

Drool...................

 

KentYeti,

It might be a better idea putting the times and thoughts onto another forum?? ;-) as this particular forum is more suited.

 

I thought plans were in hand to do that? To preserve the enormous amount of detail about Bulleid performances that we have been discussing on our round robin e mail group. I'll help do that if I can.

But I do feel those views should get aired in part here from time to time as well!

 

The round robin is you're baby!!! ;-)

 

Please keep posting your Bulleid annecdotes around here, Bryan. I have just two childhood memories of "real" Southern steam (Bude at Ringwood in 1966, Clan Line near Brockenhurst with the Bournemouth Belle set in 1967) and have always loved these peculiar locos, especially Clan Line. I suppose the "Bullhead Memories" section might be an alternative if others think "Steam Traction" is not quite the right place.

 

I guess me being such a Bulleid fanatic it's probably best to keep them under the Bulleid heading. But I'll do what others want.

It's nice to know they are appreciated. Strange that some of the memories are still crystal clear. Like that 106 mph footplate ride with Fred Burridge. Going round the slow line curves at Farnborough on the footplate of 34101 with Gordon Porter and Tom Moult at 82 mph after 90 mph at Fleet, and the 105 mph with Gordon Hooper, "dropgrate" Wilson and "Smithy" on 35005. Plus a good few more.

Others come back if I find/get sent and read a particular timing log. Others I guess are gone forever!

Bryan

 

Question for Spamcan81. Is the article in Steam Railway; "Jeremy Hosking is going to buy 92 Squadron" rubbish, or what?

 

Interesting, very interesting. Perhaps he will also buy 34073 249 Squadron as a source of spare parts, like he did with 35022.

 

Looks like he wants to complete his collection of Bulleids then.

 

Hosking would buy the Country if it came up for sale.

Anyway:-

http://www.92squadron.co.uk/frame.html

 

Perhaps if JH does`t buy 34081 then 34073 could be a good way for him to get hold of a Spam can, however being a businessman i think he would seek a sensible purchase price from J B and G Gore, not paying over the odds for an Ex Barry wreck, even with lots of spare parts!

 

I've moved the last part of a discussion on 34090 that was on the Build and Orogional Merchant navy thread.

I do hope Spamcam81 doesn't mind.

I've been GOOGLING this and can't really get anywhere. But I am sure that loco sounded different for some reason!