Project for short heritage railway beside busway Dunstable

Re: Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

Haven't seen anywhere about this scheme as to what length of operating railway is possible.

 

Re: Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

Whtever it is we should save it, we need to keep every scrap of our railway heritage!!!

 

Re: Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

The length of the track will be about 400 yards in total. As there will be no grandfather rights, I believe that there must be a mandatory safety margin between the limit of passenger train operation and the buffer stops. What is that distance? 20 or 25 yards/metres seems to ring a bell, but I'm not too sure.

Chris

 

Approval gained for Dunstable heritage railway scheme - money has to be found?

In a letter dated 19 April 2001 the Luton to Dunstable bus way project of Luton Borough Council stated to me that the potential heritage value of the disused railway line is an issue that has been realised and the ongoing environmental evaluation does indicate that if practicable then a short length of heritage railway could be retained to realise the heritage value of the disused railway line although this should not be at the expense of compromising the bus way scheme.

Following the negotiations with the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council since April 2008 (protracted for both of us!) I am pleased to be able to state that the bus way team ARE definitely prepared to entertain the idea of a short stretch of railway line being retained as a "heritage" railway line.

The main features that have been established are:

• The Luton to Dunstable railway line closed to heavy freight on 30 April 1989 when the last oil trains to the oil sidings oil supply plant at Tavistock Street Dunstable were withdrawn.
  
  Currently the disused rail line is merely a siding leading out from Luton which has been disconnected from the national rail network and has no proper road access.
  
  Currently the "'society'" to promote the scheme is in the form of an e-mail group
  
  The track gauge would be standard gauge 4 foot 8 1/2 inches
  
  Length approximately 400 yard running line, may be possible to extend later
  
  Start from Dunstable High Street North - Capron Road at buffer stop at terminus of the current disused Luton to Dunstable railway line
  
  End at Dunstable South Apex rail Triangle
  
  Museum, maintenance and restoration Depot area and land to provide road access to the railway track is not proposed to be the vacant land at oil sidings site as this is zoned for residential in application SB/09/00171 of 18 March 2009
  
  Museum, maintenance and restoration Depot area and land to provide road access to the railway track is proposed to be the existing pallet store land area off Tavistock Street Dunstable (possibly also the machinery hire centre beside it) which is to be redeveloped in the application SB/09/00171 of 18 March 2009
  
  This land is linked to the disused railway line via an existing descending formation and spur line
  
  The track between this spur and the pallet store - oil sidings land was lifted in 1990s and so in the heritage railway proposals the track would be extended back in to the pallet store land
  
  The heritage railway project does NOT control any of the land needed for the scheme
  
  An agreement will have to be struck for the use of the strip of land where the rail line will be retained along the disused railway corridor with the councils
  
  Funding for the land lease or ownership (of pallet store land etc) from the private owner (which has not yet been secured) is a major requirement for the scheme to progress
  
  Other initial funding will be needed for retention of items such as track from the disused railway line (to be used as points and sidings in the museum and depot) when the track is lifted
  
  Also funding will be needed for retention of many sleepers from the disused Luton to Dunstable railway line, old fencing posts, bricks from demolished bridges etc which will be re - used for re - sleepering the proposed heritage railway, as fencing along the proposed heritage railway and to build structures such as platforms etc
  
  Later funding will be needed for retention of the existing railway footbridge carrying Dog Kennel Path across the disused railway line and re - installion of this footbridge along the path leading from Crabtree Way for the retained rail line to run beneath it
  
  Later there will be many redundant items from the national network otherwise disposed of for scrap which will be needed i.e. signalling equipment and so on
  
  Initial services will be with a Diesel Multiple Unit with steam or diesel locomotives following later on

I received a letter dated 29 April 2009 on 05 May 2009 which states the terms upon which Luton Borough Council are prepared to deal with the proposed heritage railway project.

The bus way team at Luton Borough Council are going out to tender in the next few weeks to appoint a designer and contractor on the bus way scheme, and by this autumn they will be in discussion with the preferred contractor to finalise the work that is needed. The construction work will begin in mid - 2010.

In their letter of 29 April 2009, the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that if they are to advise their contractor that the track between High Street North and South Apex of Triangle should remain in situ and that other rail features (such as the point work along the branch at west apex and either end of the loop, and enough extra track for the sidings in the land to the south of the rail embankment at Tavistock Street) should be retained and stored at expense to the heritage railway organisation then the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council will need a FIRM COMMITMENT from the heritage railway by this autumn.

By this Luton Borough Council mean

1 - That the heritage railway organisation must be formally set up

2 - That there would be a high level of certainty that funding of the proposed heritage railway centre would be forthcoming by early to mid - 2010

3 - Luton Borough Council would require the completion of a legal agreement between the new heritage railway organisation and the council which would cover the mechanism by which the heritage railway organisation funding would contribute to the additional costs incurred by the bus way contractor.

To be able to meet these terms, if the heritage railway project is to progress we need to get a society established and company arm registered to provide a legal entity for the council to deal with set up and then funding and the required legal mechanisms in place, before the autumn of 2009.

It looks increasingly likely that the clearance of the vegetation [which is a serious problem along the disused railway from Luton to Dunstable, especially within Dunstable at the south face of triangle where the rails are obscured between Crabtree Way and the west apex] and the removal of the long - disused track will be undertaken by the contractors building the bus way after the land has been purchased from BRB Residuary LTD. This is because BRB Residuary LTD could not dispose of the track and get any kind of reasonable return on it, to off set the high costs of vegetation clearance and track removal, especially after the collapse in scrap steel prices in late 2008.

In their letter of 29 April 2009 reiterating the views stated in their letter of 22 October 2008 the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that the latest estimates of the cost of the Luton to Houghton Regis bus way are very close to the total government grant and that this imposes very serious limitations on the items for the proposed heritage railway that can be funded from the bus way grant.

In their letter of 22 October 2008 the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that only a handful of items (many of which are needed in connection with the bus way - open space project anyway) can be funded by the bus way project.

As Kirkby and Diamond, agents for the landowner of the pallet store land at Tavistock Street, and Central Bedfordshire Council have said, there are some very serious gaps in funding for the proposed heritage railway project, the main outstanding funding items which are of immediate priority include funding for things such as

1 - The lease or purchase of the pallet store land off Tavistock Street Dunstable (in line with the outline application SB/09/00171 the proposed use of the vacant land alongside the pallet store has been shelved at least for now)

2 - For the retention and storage of the other rail features when the track is lifted in 2010 (such as the point work along the branch at west apex and either end of the loop, and enough extra plain track for the sidings in the land to the south of the rail embankment at Tavistock Street, and enough spare sleepers to re - sleeper the proposed heritage railway, bricks and bridge and level crossing componants)

The location of the proposed heritage railway could mean that it will be a good position for attracting grant aid funding.

The proposed heritage railway would be the only standard gauge heritage railway in Bedfordshire and near to Hertfordshire (which is only a few miles away from Dunstable and literally borders Luton) and so the unique nature of the attraction in the area would provide a major boost to tourism in the area.

Luton and Dunstable have levels of unemployment above the average for the area and the proposed heritage railway is situated in one of the more deprived areas of Dunstable (Northfield ward) to the North of the town, which has none of the tourist attractions found elsewhere in the town. To help the deprived areas the proposed heritage railway hopes to provide training and work placements for those on day releases from Further Education colleges and those on Department for Work Family and Pensions and Employment Service schemes. It is hoped that the location of the railway in one of the more deprived areas of Dunstable will help to encourage interest in such participation because those in receipt of these schemes will be all the more aware of it.

According to Bedfordshire & Luton Tourism Growth Strategy 2007 -2012 Bedfordshire does not have the best of perceptions for tourism because it is easy to pass through it on one's way out from London and because of negative perceptions of the county and poor attractions, restaurants and hotels.

In 2002 - 2003 the East of England Development tourism surveys identified Bedfordshire (from Norfolk, Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Essex and Bedfordshire) as being at the bottom in terms of public awareness and perceptions. Despite their long historys, Luton (a Saxon town dating from AD 700s) and Dunstable (which dates back to Roman times, abandoned until 1100s), have a poor image. Bedfordshire and Luton 2007 - 2012 tourism growth strategy identified Luton as having particular problems with its image.

Only 5% of jobs in Bedfordshire depended on tourism in 2003, most visitors were 'day trippers' (which create the maximum impact in terms of congestion and loadings on buses, coaches and trains etc), there were no '5 star' hotels anywhere in Bedfordshire and a much higher proportion of visitors to the county were coming on business travel or to visit friends or relatives, than was the case anywhere else in East of England. The difference in hotel occupation between the quiet time (Jan - March) and summer peak (June - August) was much less than elsewhere.

Since then the local councils have made concerted efforts to change matters. There have been several local tourist attractions opened in the area - the Dunstable theatre, the Chiltern Downs Centre near Whipsnade between Luton and Dunstable, (both in 2007), the Carnival Arts Centre in Luton (2008), the Dunstable heritage centre run by the twon council, which add to the established attractions such as the Whipsnade Zoo, Priory Gardens and Church.

The proposed heritage railway will aim to continue the above trend.

The London Olympics are to be held only 40 miles away in 2012, and the location is only a few miles from London Luton Airport near to a direct transport link from the airport. Luton is on a direct train link to and from Gatwick Airport and the station is served by the direct transport link from London Luton. So the proposed heritage railway will be in a good position to attract visitors who had come to the 2012 London Olympic Games. The location of the proposed heritage railway is only 30 miles from London and so it would draw passengers from a generally wide catchment area. So the proposed heritage railway could attract a lot of tourists to the county who would not have come otherwise both during the 2012 London Olympics and later.

I hope this is of interest and if there is anything that I can help you with then please do not hesitate to contact me.


Yours truly,

Alfred Roberts.

 

Proposed heritage railway Dunstable old GNR branch to Luton

Latest news is that Luton Borough Council have told me that the Luton to Dunstable bus way project has finally gone out to tender, that a contractor will be appointed at end of 2009, and that all the undergrowth is to be cleared from the long disused Luton to Dunstable railway line and the track lifted from mid - 2010, then construction of the bus way will begin.

For the proposed railway to go ahead the funding must be raised by next year.

The idea would be to operate a 400 yard section of the old line with a DMU, with loco haulage and steam haulage following later on. In the long term once A5 bypass is completed there could be possibilities for extension of the running line across Dunstable High Street North (currently A5) and Brewers Hill Road then beside the driveway along the old railway line leading to industrial premises, towards the Sewell Trail.

Luton Borough Council have offered to retain the track from High Street North to the Southern Apex of the railway Triangle in situ, and then to retain some items such as spare items of pointwork, plain track and sleepers, bridge componants, level crossing componants and bricks; at cost to the heritage railway project.

Development plans* for the land at Tavistock Street mean that the proposed 'base' (which will provide road access, a small museum, rail sidings for restoration and maintanance and so on) has moved from the disused land to the land currently used as a pallet store which has better road access and has direct access on to the disused railway line, via the old spur line which once led in to the oil depot sidings, which is still in situ.*See application number 00171 of 18 March 2009 http://62.253.210.148/pap/searchresult. ... er=09/0171

The Luton to Dunstable railway line closed to freight on 30 April 1989.

In 1990 Luton Borough Council began promoting the idea of the disused but mothballed railway line being converted into a guided bus way.
http://www.luton.gov.uk/internet/transp ... e%20busway

In 2001, Luton Borough Council responsible for promoting the guided bus way along the old Luton to Dunstable railway indicated that the potential heritage value of the rail line had been realised and if practicable a short length of line could be retained for heritage purposes. I explored the possibilities with the council in the summer of 2001 and we came to the conclusion that a base on a dell hole of waste land (formerly oil depot sidings) off Tavistock Street along High Street North to the North of Dunstable Town centre and a short length of line along the old line towards Dunstable Park was possible.

Following a public enquiry http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/twa/ir/lutond ... kinspe1032
the busway gained the statutary authorisation in December 2006
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20063118.htm
and in 2008 the approval was given for the funding for the bus way.

I have been liasing with the Luton Borough Council, South Bedfordshire District Council - Central Bedfordshire Council, and Dunstable Town Council on this myself since April 2008.

I have set up an e mail group to give information on the idea.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/D ... ay_Centre/

Website
http://www.freewebs.com/south_bedfordshire_railway/

Yours,

Alfred.

EXTRACT:

Luton Bute Street to Dunstable High Street North, Oil Siding, Great Northern, Closed 30-Apr-1989 1989.015 Retained.
Luton Bute Street, JN with 1965 spur to VAUXHALL SOUTH, g f, Great Northern, regular traffic ceased 31-Aug-1972 1972.047 Retained.
LUTON SOUTH to Luton Bute Street, BRB, Closed 30-Apr-1989, Retained.
Dunstable A P C M Inwards Siding West face to DUNSTABLE NORTH Great Northern Closed 09-Oct-1969 1969.125 Retained after 07-July-1967 for rounding only.
http://www.closedlines.free-online.co.uk/gb_ew_x.htm

 

What is the USP of this line?

I am just concerned that more heritage lines mean less resources for those that exist already.

 

What does usp mean?

 

Unique Selling Point - What would this line have that others do not?

The Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland have the slate tips and unusual locomotives, the WSR is the longest standard gauge preserved line in the UK, the GCR has double track running, etc.

 

I am concerned that this project is a one-man private dream, and the Council has been hoodwinked into taking him seriously!

 

Well let's not jump to conclusions.

It's just when I read 'beside busway', I think - well when I go to a preserved railway, I would rather see nice countryside or interesting landscapes, not a concrete busway - so I was wondering what amazing factor the railway would have in order to make money? As running trains is an expensive business and the average joe public wants steam in any case. Considering there is somewhat a shortage of working steam locos at the moment, I feel that yet another short heritage line will in fact be detrimental.

Don't get me wrong, there are a thousand and one railways I would like to see re-opened, I just do not feel this is the appropriate place in time to do so.

 

I know the area quite well and passed by only the other day. Believe me when I say there ain't much pretty to look at in that neck of the woods. "Alfred Roberts" has popped up elsewhere on other forums discussing other schemes and I'm not aware of any of them reaching fruition. A dangerous day dreamer? Only time will tell.

 

Hold on, I've just re-read and the land for the depot will cost £75,000 a year rental - so a 400 yard demo line along a concrete busway in a housing estate, operating with an old DMU will have to make £75k a year MINIMUM just so it doesnt get evicted?
Add to that permanent way, signalling, fuel, health and safety, staff (not just wages), rolling stock, vandalism (Because there will be), security, the fact the society does not own any of the land. All this and what is in it for the visitor?

 

Hi,

The council's view was stated to me in 2001 - before I even started working on the project - that the potential heritage value of the disused Luton to Dunstable railway line was an issue that had been recognised, and the ongoing environmental evaluation of the bus way project indicated that - if practicable - a short length of the disused railway could be retained.

The railway is not actually beside the bus way it would run through the area of 'open space' near to the bus way. So will run through open land space.

No, the proposed railway would run from the depressed urban area out into an attractive area of open space nearby.

The £75 000 figure was for the annual lease for a dell hole of waste land (formerly oil depot sidings) off Tavistock Street along High Street North to the North of Dunstable Town centre.

Development plans* for the land at Tavistock Street mean that the proposed 'depot' has been moved to the North East, from the dell hole of waste land to the land currently used as a pallet store, which has better road access and has direct access on to the disused railway line via the old spur line which once led in to the oil depot sidings, which is still in situ. The cost to buy this would be around £500k or lease half of the £75k figure because it is half the size.

Try this:

The scenary that the proposed railway runs through is a stark contrast - from the crossroads on the A5 (the grim housing around the beginning of Houghton Road, the council houses at Brewers Hill Road, and the urban bedsit land of High Street North), what is basically industrial wasteland at Tavistock Street --> thence out into open countryside within a short distance.

The proposed railway will be the only standard guage heritage railway in Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire. All others are narrow guage or miniuture.

The proposed railway is only 30 miles from (North) London so is the only preserved standard guage railway so near to (North) London.

Any comments anyone?

Try reading the website for the scheme -- some is a little outdated I admit / ditto the material about the depot area -- http://www.freewebs.com/south_bedfordshire_railway/

Alfred.

*See application number 00171 of 18 March 2009 http://62.253.210.148/pap/searchresult. ... er=09/0171

 

Hey cut the man some slack, everyone around here is quick to put someone down or critisise...I say good luck!

 

Thanks for that!

Today I was thinking of the same sort of thing really. I have spent OVER A YEAR working on the scheme and I must have spent a thousand or more -- from an income from a job in fast food!

To be fair, the local council(s) have also done a lot of work on the proposal.

We now have the go - ahead but we have to organise and get the funding.

This year Luton Borough Council are going out to tender on the bus way project, next year Luton Borough Council will have to clear the thick undergrowth and then lift the track from the disused railway from Luton to Dunstable themselves - before they can even start the bus way.

The landowners BRB Residuary LTD have had problems selling the track so it will be sold for what they can get for it (preservationists be aware). So there will be no problems in getting the track needed for the proposed heritage railway - there is 6.5 miles of track up for grabs and the council proposes to leave the stretch we need in situ for us!

As I have said, after the development plans came out in March 2009 (for the entire of the old oil sidings and oil supply depot site at Tavistock Street - High Street North Dunstable) - the 'depot' proposal changed - it now is proposed to use the pallet store (built along the East part of the oil site nearest to the old oil rail access in 1990s) as 'depot' and 'road access' - the rail access to the old oil land from the disused rail line is still in situ up to the boundary fence of the pallet store and the road access is a lot better, also although the plot is half the size it could be a lot cheaper - £75k pa lease for the vacant land with no current - poor potential road access and no current - poor potential rail access (only via an awkward graded entry to be discussed) was too much as was said!

Security for this land is in place - the site is ringed by pallisade fences and there is some CCTV (the retention of this will need to be negotiated!) I expect some barbed wire over the top of the fence and some extra (old? - where from?) CCTV cameras will be a good idea.

Do feel free to look at the website or ask any questions here or on the e-mail group.

Alfred.

 

Ornithologits will be attracted by the resident cuckoo?

 

Sounds like promising moves Alfred, good luck!

 

One thing is criminal in all this.

Re opening the branch as a railway was costed out, as was building the guided busway, which,at the time, was unproven technology. The rail option worked out at about 10% of the bus option, but govt. funding was available for the latter.

A driver mate of mine, who has actually spent most of his 30+ yr rail career on Pway, walked the line a couple of years ago. Evidently, most of the rail is virtually new! (yes I know it would all need relaying, etc).

There is a desperate need for decent transport between Luton & Dunstable. I had the missfortune to work in Dunstable for a year. The drive there (ie off the M1 at Luton) was a nightmare. Luton enjoys an excellent rail service. If a few car park spaces at Luton station were sacrificed, the branch could be reconnected to the MML. It would just need a couple of 142's, and you've got a moneyspinner. Maybe the BRB realised this when they left the branch extant?

Even better, I believe the line used to extend to Leighton Buzzard (WCML). Now wouldn't that be a handy diversion?

Preservation in Luton? The place is a total dive. Anything you leave there will get vandalised. This is a no hope project. One of the best cases about for reopening, not preserving!

 

'The proposed heritage railway would be the only standard gauge heritage railway in Bedfordshire and near to Hertfordshire (which is only a few miles away from Dunstable and literally borders Luton) and so the unique nature of the attraction in the area would provide a major boost to tourism in the area. "

Major boost? How many people do you think will come to visit the Luton and Dunstable area to make a 400 yards trip in a dmu?