Harz Narrow Gauge - HSB

Thanks. Yes, it's possible; the 2012 trip is one where both the notes and photos are currently eluding me. 5906 is the only one I've travelled behind, however.

 

7245 has been out on test this week. All looking good from what Social Media suggests. Would imagine once passed fit it will become the Nordhausen regular again

 

https://bahnblogstelle.com/237929/h...BnN20zdR0Cwk4NZJvo_aem_1Bx2R-Thtr_KAJAqDSZh5g

Basically it says the network is chronically underfunded and has been since since the early 1990s, so much so that €544m of investment will be required over the next decade to make it profitable again. That's in addition to the running costs of €253m.

Services on the route between Wernigerode and the Brocken bring in 96% of ticket sales! 1m passengers per year, income of €15.5m, yet the railway lost €5.6m last year. Steam on the Selketalbahn in the future sounds unlikely except for railtours.

Makes the NYMR's woes sound trivial.

 

Perhaps, but the NYMR does not have similar extensive support from local municipalities as the HSB.

 

Although in reality regardless of which line you look at be it a Heritage Railway or our national network, underfunding, back log of major infrastructure work and fares that do not cover the costs apply to virtually all of them.

 

Which would be an awful shame, as the Sekletalbahn is the best bit, and certainly the bit with the most potential for development. Harzgerode from memory is a lovely little station with a nice cafe, and a huge unused piece of land next to it which could easily be developed with a museum of some sort, where some of the long-stopped locos could be put on display. And yet hardly any trains go there, and the site sits undeveloped.

I've long thought that they need to try to run it slightly less like a municipal transport network and slightly more like a tourist attraction... but I doubt they will.

 

Just be careful what you say about "development" in case they read it, or next time you visit it will be covered in newly built houses or factory units!

 

It's a real mess around the Harz Narrow Gauge Railways. There isn't just a shortage of steam locomotives, there is also a shortage of signalmen and luggage cars. A few weeks ago, the salon coach was in the consist of the "Nordhauser" as a replacement for a luggage car. There are just the 2-10-2 99.23-24 class in service. I think it's the first time since decades, there are no other steam locomotives classes around the network. No Mallets, little engines and even 99 222 isn't in service yet.

The Selketalbahn will be closed at the end of next year due to the construction of flood protection around Straßberg. They said it will be closed for at least five years. Some rumours say it will never reopen again.

 

November is traditionally quiet in the Harz, but Monday to Thursday only sees two locos in steam on the whole network, and no trains up the Brocken! Even Friday - Sunday only sees three locos and five trips up to the top. No steam out of Nordhausen, and no services at all between Illfeld, DAH and the whole of the Selketalbahn.

 

What a sad state of affairs since my regular visits a long time ago. The amount of Euros being mentioned as needed is incredible.

Very, very unlikely I will visit again. If I ever decide to add to my very high number of trips to Germany for steam, it will be for such as a 'main line' run on decent timings behind a 38 class 4-6-0 or a 78 class 4-6-4 tank. And I imagine the chances of timing one of those at 100 km/h is very low indeed.

Bryan

 

I’m struggling a little to imagine how you could spend 800 million Euros short of completely building the railway afresh. It is a staggering amount of money to the point where I wonder if the purpose of the report is to provide ammunition to close the lines that they don’t want to keep.

 

Tbh it’s fairly obvious. They don’t have the facilities. They can’t carry out major repair and rebuild on locos and coaches due to a severe lack of space. Every coach pretty has to be taken to Halberstat, every loco to Meinegen. They’ve had a rough deal with nearly every loco recently where it’s needed so much doing to it.

The track takes so much keeping up with. It’s such a vast route, with so much terrain and weather change that they simply have to renew a lot of track a lot of the time.

The railcars are outdated and need serious attention. As does much of the heritage stuff really. Using them on the heavy basis they do it’s no wonder they fail regular. It’s like running a 121 bubblecar on the West Highland Mainline every day without fail, sooner or later it will give way.

They’ll be lucky to be able to close lines. They get so much funding from towns like Quednlingburg, Hasselfelde, Nordhausen, etc they are almost duty bound to serve them.

I’d very much see a regular Diesel hauled service being introduced on the Selkelt, with steam on special days/special trips. Nordhausen I reckon will keep their steam diagram, but loose the more regular Railcar services. I think Brocken will see an increase to 4 regular steam, but also a regular diesel path.

 

https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sach...yqU_ivb_a2N3-DPEWg_aem_metZ894OaFR5azmizPcOZg



€20m for each of the next two years. However...

 

As far as I can make out from various forumns they are looking at things like electrification for Trams between Quedlinburg and Gernrode, a consistent diesel diagram for the Brocken, and also converting more 2-10-2s to oil. Some suggest they may retain a core historic steam fleet run by coal, for some services, which I could easily see being 2 of the 2-10-2s, the Prairie, and perhaps a Mallett.

5902 Mallett was shipped back to Wernigerode from Meinegen as a bodged back together not overhauled
Job last week

 

I thought electrification was being looked at for Nordhausen - Ilfeld, so they could replace the dual-power units that run onto the Nordhausen tram system with pure electric units. I think it will be quite some time before there is an operational Mallet - the focus has to be on the main revenue-earning equipment. With the Selketalbahn scheduled to close next year for flood risk reduction works, scheduled to take five years, it must be questionable whether the 2-6-2T will be overhauled and returned to traffic, as it's only really suited to the lighter trains on that line. I'm beginning to wonder whether the Harzgerode branch will ever re-open. At present, none of the 2-10-2Ts burn oil - there's been talk of it for some time and I think one is at Meiningen for such work to be carried out, but I think that's stalled as well. Something certainly needs to be done to address the problems with fires on the Brocken - there doesn't seem to be much evidence that they're actually being caused by the railway, but that is the perception.

 

Just dropped onto this thread, and brushed away my cobwebs !!!!
I visited the DDR three times 1983 1985 and 1988, obviously before the wall came down. In 1983 the 2-10-2s that took me from Wernigerode to Nordhausen was 99-0233 ands was oil fired but two years later they appear to have reverted to coal.

Back then Western people weren't allowed anywhere near Brocken so I still "need" that line, although we managed to travel over the rest, including the delightful trip up to Harzgerode with one of the 0-6-0s. This stuck in my mind because the crew were having trouble with the air pump and the fireman spent half the journey back down to Alexisbad clinging onto the front end hitting the pump with a hammer. As the Selketalbahn was vacuum braked back then I gather we were relying on the vacuum braked coaches to get us back down the hill safely !!

I am sure the railway attracts huge numbers of tourists, but how the finances work out must be quite complex. How much of the fleet is left ? From memory back then there were two 0-6-0s, six mallets and maybe 99.7222, 99.7230-99.7247 and some dusty old railcars in Westerntor. No mainline diesels so 100% steam service. Back then of course Gernrode was the terminus from Strasberg and Quedlingberg - Gernrode was standard gauge. We saw a 50.35 on a freight trip there.

 

The 0-6-0Ts have been out of traffic for some years now. There are four Mallets left, 5905 and 5904 having been scrapped in 1975 and 1990 respectively. I believe 5903 is stored in a shed on an industrial estate in Wernigerode. As reported above, 5902 has just come back from Meiningen after it was deemed to expensive to repair. 5901 is out of traffic and 5906 came out of traffic a couple of years ago and is now in the shed at Hasselfelde. I think there's a total of 17 of the 2-10-2Ts, though I can't remember if that includes the one built in the 1920s for DR (99 222). Of those locos, about 7 are stored at various locations across the network - three of them in the shed at Ilfeld, a couple probably at Benneckenstein - and variously robbed of bits to keep the others going. I think 9 or 10 of them had new frames in this century, but not all of those are still in traffic now. There's also the 2-6-2T (99 6001), which ran out of ticket relatively recently. There were three of the big diesels in operation and I think one of the ones that were out of service has been or is being refurbished, to partially address the fire problem. The 1930s railcar, one of the 1950s railcars and one of the 1990s railcars are also all out of traffic and unlikely to return in the near future.

 

All this chat about the Harz reminds me of the many visits I have made to the area and to East Germany. From around 1978 I think.

Although my visits to film 'Storming the Brocken' were after the wall came down of course! That was a very popular film I made and once sold to fellow enthusiasts a few decades ago. I filmed and mastered it with decent Sony professional kit.

As it happens I am evaluating getting archival digital versions of some of my U-Matic SP and Betacam SP master tapes (Betacam not Betamax!). The first is due back this week- it's one of my South African master tapes.

I have no intention of re-releasing them for sale. But do want to find a way I can share them with such as Nat Pres guys and girls who like overseas steam. YouTube springs to mind about which I know zero, but that is a matter for another thread and not here.

What is relevant here is that subject to my current evaluation (and the tape condition), and I am using what is said to be one of the best digitisation companies in the UK, I will get 'Storming the Brocken' digitised quite early in the new year. It was one of only two tapes I mastered on Betacam SP.

In the meantime I do hope the Harz system can remain with a decent level of steam operation on such as Wernigerode to Brocken.

Bryan

 

Certainly there is 2 2-10-2s at Meiningen I believe for the oil conversion. 38 and 44.

The Selke is due closure, but again on visiting last year there was talking that this was to be in sections and there is a chance of some running some workings.

In terms of Nordhausen to Ilfeld I believe that is correct, but a chap over there mentioned Gernrode to Qued is also a possible for this.

I messaged the railways socials team the other day and they said Harzgerode is due to reopen.