Austerity 2-8-0 query

That in one of his books ?

 

The reason why no Austerities lasted to the end of steam was quite simple. At the beginning of 1967 there were still 111 Austerities 'on the books', mainly on the Eastern with just a few on the Scottish regions. The London Midland had none. Their withdrawal before the end of steam, unlike Black 5's and 8F's was nothing to do with condition or financial considerations. It was simply because they were on regions that eliminated steam before the London Midland.

 

I probably shouldn't have hung my comments onto your post. Mine was a general comment as to why they didn't last until the end of steam and debunking any suggestions that it was due to financial or even operational reasons. It was more to do with the regions that they were based on and the fact that they eliminated steam completely. they lasted until the end on the Eastern Region and pretty much until the end on the Scottish Region

 

Yes. "World Steam in the Twentieth Century" Page 72.

 

I think that’s only partly true, as steam retreated some the best of what was left were transferred between regions, the Southern got Standards from elsewhere and the surviving Britannias gradually migrated to the NW. The WDs were built cheaply for wartime service and weren’t expected to last. Towards the end I visited Wakefield shed a couple of times where most of the survivors were allocated and they were in appalling condition, one still in steam looked as if it had blown the end of the left hand cylinder off. I would have thought if any of them were offered to the LM the answer would have been a polite no thanks.

 

Presumably the fact that both 8F and Black 5s lasted so long could be that both were Stanier designs and parts were interchangeable.

 

It clearly made sense to concentrate on the minimum number of classes as both were large and cannibalisation was used to keep the show on the road. Not so many interchangeable parts as you might think.

 

Mention has been made about the unbalanced nature of the WDs motion, and how they were less suitable for high speed running. Doubtless they were good at doing the slower speed heavy haulage stuff, but might not be so suitable for being pressed into service, say, on a semi-fast passenger train (+? steam heating). Whereas the Black 5s, 8Fs and BR standards could serve if necessary - useful flexibility as things were being run down. Might this be another reason for the WDs to be withdrawn first?

Steve B

 

No mention of the J27 and Q6 classes that lasted a lot longer than the Stanier locos.

 

That's because they were introduced 27 and 20 years before the first Stanier engine emerged from Crewe Works. It wasn't a case that the Stanier engines were life expired, nor might it be that the Eastern engines were life expired either. External forces certainly brought about the withdrawal of Stanier's classes and possibly also the Q6 and J27, but also Collett's, Hawhsworth's, Bulleid's, Maunsell's, etc.

 

There are records of Austerity 2-8-0s on a regular passenger duty for a few months during the summer of 1949, hauling an Eastbourne - London Bridge via Haywards Heath and East Grinstead service; apparently the only Austerity-hauled passenger turn on the Southern Region into London. As I recall they stopped at the end of the summer because the locos were not fitted with steam heating equipment.

Tom

 

There are photos of them being used on holiday excursions to the Lancashire coast in the fifties and sixties

 

It would have been interesting to have been a fly on the wall of the Running Foreman's office when the driver arrived to discuss the diagramming of this engine . . .

 

See attached, end of paragraph two.
I think ( memory not as good as it was ! ) the roster involved parcels Eastbourne to Haywards Heath
and then the 03.27 HH to LB via East Croydon. This somewhat obscure working endured until
the reorganisation of the Oxted line workings in 1955. I used to see the 03.27 often at East Croydon
in 1951/2 but by then it was hauled by a K Class 2-6-0. The indefatigable SAW Harvey timed the 03.27
several times but unfortunately not behind a WD 2-8-0

Michael Rowe
View attachment 96226

 

Similarly, I think they occasionally turned up on excursions to Southend over the LTSR.

Edit. I just checked and there were some shedded at 33B, Tilbury Riverside.

 

It would be very interesting to know what the KWVR crews make of 90733. Presumably the fore-and-aft motion doesn't happen at preserved-line speeds?

 

More likely that surging would be much less noticeable under lighter loadings such as on heritage railways (rather than speed as such).

 

It's the speed which does it, and the 'dynamic augment' rises with the square of velocity. In English, it's four times worse at 50 m.p.h. than it was at 25 m.p.h. and probably feels worse again on the footplate. The out of balance reciprocating masses are present whether there's a heavy load behind it or the engine is running light.

 

If we're playing Top Trumps, the last two steam locomotives on Scottish Region books were of 1897 and 1900 vintage, with a third withdrawn about just over a month previously being from 1891! Those North British Class C/J36's certainly soldiered on to the end....