North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I dont know the NYMRs circumstances but at the begining of Polar Express we were heavily courted by the US owners to the extent that managers were flown on expenses paid trips to see the US operations. We concluded that we didnt have enough volunteer resources to deliver both Polar Express and our native Santa Special events. We stuck with the santa Specials and Polar Express was taken on by the other Kent & East Sussex Railway. Even with hindsight this was absolutely the right decision the margins and prehaps not so obvious to outsiders the winter cashflow is much better for the railway. We do loose on passenger numbers but you cant pay the winter bills on passenger figures.

 

As you say, the reduction to five day running last year wasn't the best managed action with some spectacular own goals. I have heard that it was not simply a cost cutting exercise, though. Last February I had an e-mail from someone in the know which said "The reduction to a 5 day week is not in response to demand or as a realistic cost cutting exercise, it is to reduce the pressure on the structures, track and stock to a level where it might scrape through." The e-mail also went on to say "People have been silenced over the dangerous condition of points at Goathland, bridge 42 has high priority defects outstanding for 4 years, 80135 is not going to be ready, the oil conversion of the S160 has been delayed, 80136 is not expected to last the season, the 25 has failed and big work is required, it is unlikely that there will be a spare Whitby engine until June. Ground level staff that were cut as part of the restructures have been cut again, marketing and engagement roles have been increased at a higher cost. Morale is at the lowest I have seen it......" How much of that has turned out to be true?

Personally, I can't see things changing until there is a change in the senior management. Those in command seem to think the answer to everything is to employ someone; it appears to be in their blood. @21B has, on more than one occasion, said that one of the prime considerations of those at the top is to not employ someone to do anything that a volunteer can do. Until this starts to happen and the wages bill starts to come down, the railway will continue on its downwards slope. And for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not wanting redundancy, I'm wanting natural wastage to not be replaced when it happens without a serious atttempt to amalgamate jobs and look for volunteers to do the job. Employees need to be multi-tasking and that applies from the CEO downwards. There is little to stop a CEO from working in the booking office or answering the phone when needs arise and having some idea of what's involved is a good management trait.

That info regarding advertising staff came from a member of paid staff but I can't actually vouch for it.

 

How would I fix it? Well since you asked...

Firstly a business mindset, we need £7m a year to run, I want to try and make £12m a year, that way even if I miss by £4m we made a £1m surplus.

Idea #1)

If they're going to try and be a business rather than a volunteer run railway, do what the big attractions do.

Corporate sponsorship. Alton Towers, Disneyland, Formula 1. All of them use sponsorships.

Alton Towers and Disneyland are tourist attractions, they also are heavy engineering, and they both run a lot of trains. Even if they do loop-de-loops.
Formula 1 cars use more consumables than a steam locomotive does, and they only last a year rather than 10, and again heavy engineering.

Turn the Christmas train in to the Coca Cola Christmas train. Play "Holidays are coming" at the boarding station. Paint a wagon in Coca Cola branding, get some enamel signs up with Coca Cola branding on at the stations (can be olde worlde to fit the aesthetic). Get a headboard on the locomotive. Give a free bottle of Coca Cola on every table / seat. Sell Coca Cola in the shops / cafe's. Coca Cola spends £4 billion a year in advertising. If you can get just 0.01% of that you just made up the £400k deficit. And if Coca Cola aren't interested go to Pepsi instead. At Christmas the Coca Cola lorry train is a thing, The Pepsi Christmas Train can be a thing.

Paint the wagons in corporate colours. Tankers can be Shell, BP, United Dairies, Esso, Texaco, Petronas, etc etc. I think back to my OO gauge sets, Mcvities, Weetabix, Jaffa Cakes, Cadburies, etc all had wagons. Stick a JCB on a flat wagon. Think of all the enamel signs you've seen on stations, make new ones. Plenty of space on the walls at stations.
Put advertising in the coaches, maybe not to the level of the London Underground, but there's room to do it.

The dining service becomes the Tesco Finest Dining Service, or the Dining Service sponsored by Tesco's.
The Cream Teas service becomes the Cravendale Cream Tea Service.
Yorkshire Tea, Whitby Fish and Chips, etc etc etc.

Replace all these brand names with whoever you can get to say yes.

Even the regular services can become a sponsored service with a headboard and some leaflets / posters.

There's a new Harry Potter TV series being filmed, there's your Halloween train sponsor.

Get a title sponsor, The NYMR sponsored by CryptoFutures, or ByBit, NordVPN, or whoever has a lot of money.

Idea #2)

Increase engagement, get the youngsters on board.

Do a deal with a local college or university which does media studies. Use them to film some Youtube series. Show a steam loco being overhauled from start to finish. Do a series on driving / firing. Overhauling a diesel engine. Do some Top Gear style challenges / stunts. Whilst TG might have looked like 3 guys pratting about, a lot of it was well stage managed behind the scenes and safety was taken seriously.

Get Clarkson on board, he managed to make a TV show about farming popular!

Idea #3)

Thomas the Tank Engine. Behind Flying Scotsman, the most recognisable locomotive in the country.

Ok I know "A day out with Thomas" has been done to death. But you know what hasn't been done? Or at least not much. Thomas on the big railway. Get a GWR Pannier as Duck, an Austerity Tank with a bit of modification to be "Thomas". One each end as run round loops are a thing of the past. And do trips along branch lines around the country, start around 7.30pm once commuter services have died off enough to give room for a slower train and the parents have finished work and had dinner, kids have finished school. NYMR is a registered TOC, make use of it. Put the NYMR Logo on the tickets, in the coaches, etc.

He could go and Visit Peter Sam / Sir Handel at Towyn!

This one is a bit tenuous and would need careful consideration as to viability etc, but TTTE is a draw, and on the big railway is a very rare sight. There's also licensing, but I think its worth a feasibility study if nothing else.

Idea #4)

Interactive displays / games at the stations.

A train driving simulator, signalling simulator. Pay per go, maybe assign points in some fashion and make it a competition.
Build a "firebox" with some infra-red sensors in it, you get 20 shovels of coal, whoever can cover the bed the most evenly (score given by number of sensors covered) wins a prize, reset every day / week / month / season and charge per attempt. Could be fully automated and coin operated, or have an attendant.

The electronics in this would be fairly simple to set up. I'm sure other similar railway related ideas could come from it.

Idea #5)

Fix the parking problem.

If feasible get a car park out of the towns / villages and link them to the railway via another smaller railway.
Do a deal with a green energy firm, have a solar + battery powered narrow gauge loco, or even hydrogen powered.
If all else fails do a park and ride replacement bus service.

You can charge for parking to make back the money spent on buying a field.

In conclusion)

These are all things I would look at before deciding to cut back on people and to generate revenue. And they are just off the top of my head.

Provide experiences, unique selling points you can't get on other railways. Cross promotion, increase engagement, appeal to youth when you are up against the Xbox / Playstation generation.
Generate cash via sponsorship.
Merlin Entertainment (who own Alton Towers, Thorpe Park, Legoland etc) have a "Worlds first / UK First" for every one of their new rides, even if some them get a bit tenuous in their branding.

Are these perfect ideas? Probably not, some will fail the feasability test, but at the moment they are just ideas, others can throw their ideas in to the hat, or offer improvements to these.

You would think a CEO who has a background in marketting and is running a large tourist attraction would know some of this stuff already! I'm just some guy on the internet.

 

Despite their perceived failings (as mentioned elsewhere in this thread), perhaps they do 'know some of this stuff already' and have quickly realised that these ideas are indeed unfeasible. . .
As for 'Well since you asked'. If they did, then I suspect they won't be asking twice.

 

Nothing wrong with throwing ideas out there, but some of this stuff has been long abandoned by Heritage Lines due to licencing costs. plus things like Potter are very controlled by WB, (think security ripping film out of cameras at Kings Cross).

Also unsure what the NYMR gain at all from idea #3 apart from a lot of costs.

 

I'm latching on to a small part of that @Steve but I find it just incredible that management have praise in Moors Line (yes its finally arrived!) for prioritising safety by stopping trains over Bridge 42 in December, yet last February it was known to have high priority defects outstanding for four years? At the very least, if those defects were within safety tolerances, which I'm assuming they must of been, an official message should have been out there and an appeal well underway. They could of had somebody on every Whitby train asking for donations to keep the service into the future. But no, wait until traffic has to be fully stopped and then launch one with half of the message (probably more) missing. Then add in the other issues and it just becomes laughable.

You can't run a railway without track, what it sits on, and engines and stock to run on it. If you are going to cut staff you don't cut the front line without losing the ability to operate. This isn't rocket science, yet here it increasingly looks like it is.

My own company has a habit of making cut backs to hit a financial number in a particular year. But we always end up losing the experience, meaning we then end up having to bring in consultants or specialists that cost more than the people we let go. I see parallels here. Too much reaction, and not enough looking forwards.

EDIT - Just to be clear, I don't disagree with the principle that the NYMR employs too many people. There are quite a few examples of employees doing work that volunteers were available for, which has been acknowledged by people at the railway. I do think the balance is wrong between departments though. The front line should not be cut if you then don't have enough to run the required level of service or maintenance. Cut backs from there will only result in less income. Whether that means you reduce in other areas or multi-skill more people for maximum efficiency is the question. I'd prefer the latter to be able to grow, but that depends on what's actually possible.

 

It is now over eight years since I met with L.I.C and made my feelings clear about how the NYMR was being run, in that too much was being spent on people and not enough on things and that without altering that then the whole enterprise risked failure. Sadly that seems to be now more likely than ever.
Now while I could afford £5 a month or even £20 a month, that wasn't always the case but even now they won't get a penny from me until the wage bill is massively reduced. No other heritage railway in the UK spends the percentage of income on staff that the NYMR does.
The saddest thing is how the community that was once core to the railway, with everybody on the same side, all trying to improve things in different ways, cooperation between groups, paid staff and volunteers is now seen in terms of them and us by the management.
I think one thing stands out to me is that L.I.C. thought the owners would benefit from a teak carriage that spent many thousands of pounds and hundreds of hours on restoring it but which had carried thousands of passengers only to the benefit of the NYMR, receiving brand new tyres, when it had entered traffic with thin tyres but good profiles. I'm not sure how we'd benefit from that as there had been no intention of it doing anything else other than running on the NYMR.

Sawdust.

 

A narrow commercial view would be that the owners would benefit from having new tyres. A wider view would suggest that a mutually acceptable agreement for the Moors to get a certain number of further years of operation (which was the intent anyhow) would fix any idea that the Moors might pay for something and not get benefits itself.

 

LIC? That's got me stumped although probably obvious when I'm told.

 

Line Is Clear, I assume.

 

Of course!

 

To answer the first point, the LNERCA was well aware that the tyres were thin on one carriage, It had been bought as (an excellent condition) grounded body from one source and a pair of bogies where we could find them, but with previous managements it had been agreed that the NYMR would fund new tyres when they were needed - but a later regime under @Lineisclear got greedy, and despite having had around 10 years free use of the carriage, felt that the LNERCA should pay for them as well, in line with his views that all volunteer groups should subsidise the railway to use their stock.. That, though, would have more than drained the LNERCA's resources for restoration and was not acceptable. As a result, the NYMR continued to happily run the tyres off several sets of wheels, and threw their arms up at the ensuing big bill - but they are willing to fund new tyres for Mk 1s!

In broader terms, the biggest problems I can see are firstly that the management hasn't adapted to the times - what have they come up in terms of mass-appeal special events to come up with the ones they have cancelled or are gradually strangling to death (Santa Specials being the latest)? - and secondly that they are denying that the best results lie in the line being operated as a heritage railway, making better use of heritage stock. These events are the most successful ones nowadays. Whitby services only fill a small part of the day, it's the rest of the trains that need to be more attractive, and more attractively priced to fill them. How they feel they can continue to justify Museums status, with all the grant funding that brings in, while gradually shedding more and more historic rolling stock that was on the brink of being available (e.g. GNR 3087, NER 953 and, most probably, LNER 88339 in due course, followed by LNER 23896 and ECJS 189 in due course - all these present new opportunities to offer new travel and/or dining experiences that will not be entertained).

 

In case it wasn’t clear, I am with you on this. Your situation is far from unique though.

Question: Was the renewal of tyres a written agreement? I suspect not. That would have been normal and accepted in the early years of preservation. Verbal agreement has many times caused subsequent disappointments on both sides.

The railway is I suspect saying to itself that for survival it needs to run to Whitby and therefore Mk1 tyres are essential. Your tyres are “nice to have” and that they cannot be bound by verbal agreements made many years ago. There is logic in that from their perspective. It’s not personal, just business.

You contend, with some reason I feel, that they are missing an opportunity, even setting aside the “moral” case for paying for the tyres, they may actually be an opportunity to earn for the line. I suspect that this is understood by the railway, but the earning power is felt to be lower than a mk1 that can go to Whitby. They have no money so need to prioritise. It’s a real shame that they won’t understand that investment in the moral case could be just as important to the future survival of the line as being totally hardheaded.

 

I can't disagree with what you wrote, by and large, but in my opinion the management has become blinkered by Whitby running, and seem to be seeing no benefit to running just Pickering -Grosmont services - they have even sacrificed some to daytime dining services - and that is stupidly short-sighted I think. What really needs to be done is exploit the heritage potential of that part of the line by offering visibly distinguishable services, but more eyecatching etc., from the Mk 1 sets running through to Whitby.

 

Which only brings the decision not to carry ordinary ticket holders into sharper relief

 

The NYMR Dining trains are yet another example of where they have fallen behind the times. Essentially what they offer now is a pub Sunday lunch ("Chicken or Beef? as a flight attendant might say!), titivated by dressing it up with silver service, and at a (relatively) low price; what they do not seem to have recognised is that all the "fine dining" TV shows (Great British Banquet, MasterChef etc. might have created a demand for a rather more sophisticated menu, for which even Yorkshire folk might be prepared to pay more! Like I keep saying, there's no imagination or willingness to try to move onwards and upwards, no themed nights etc.

 

1410 from Pickering gave an afternoon out. Restricting it to just Mondays, by not letting ordinary people on the diner, destroys journey opportunities and income.

 

Taking Alton Towers as a model worth watching this You Tube Video: