Barnes atlantic but which one? help needed

Hi

I was at Preston Steam Services, near Canterbury over the weekend and I saw a unrestored 15 inch Barnes Atlantic (I think) in red with green wheels, and was wondering if anybody knew which one it could be? Also there was ( I think) an 18 inch Stiring Single also unrestored which could have been the one that was on the Fairbourne Railway before WW II, can anybody confirm this ? There was no name or builders plates on either


Many Thanks

Brendan

 

A few years ago we stayed at a Haven holiday park adjacent to the World of Country Life centre in Exmouth, Devon. There were two miniature locos on display there one of which I'm fairly sure was the ex-Fairbourne Stirling Single. Perhaps the other was the Atlantic and they've now gone to Preston?

Andrew C

 

The unrestored 18" Stirling Single that Preston have is not the one that was at Fairbourne in the 1920s and 1930s, and then went to Jaywick, was restored in the 1970s, and is now at Exmouth. It's the 1893 Bagnall one (which appeared in Bagnall publicity) built for Lord Downshire, which later ended up displayed in a sea cadet establishment in Hamble, and some time later went to a Mr Smith somewhere around Southampton, where it was allowed to decay (the tender reportedly crumbled completely). The late J.I.C. Boyd unwittingly got the two locos mixed up (and to be fair one can hardly blame him) when researching for his Narrow Gauge Railways in Mid-Wales, and the confusion sort of stuck, not least because his text was used in the Fairbourne's guide books for many years. Bagnall were asked to supply castings (and presumably items such as the boiler) in 1896 for a copy of the 1893 loco, to be assembled by students at Regent Street Polytechnic (now part of the University of Westminster). Who happened to include a certain Henry Greenly...

 

The Barnes should be 104/1927 ex 'Billy'. The other one WB 1425/1893 ex no '778'. This was rusting away when I last saw it.

Steve

 

this topic needs moving mods to miniature railways!

 

As it covers 15" and 18" no it doesnt, as these are within the remit of 'narrow gauge'

 

barnes locos where built for pleasure railways thus being miniature
the only 15" this section covers is things like the ravenglass and eskdale where they where built for hauling stone trains

 

I think you'll find that any 15in gauge railway on this forum is classed as narrow guage, as it is in HMRI's eyes.

 

really?
taken from the first pined thread!
With regards to the recent issue of 15" gauge itself on the forum, lines which are merely small tourist lines, built solely for the purpose of small trips on a circular route or whatever belong in the Miniature Railways forum. Longer, more established lines, such as the RH&DR, R&ER, Fairbourne etc with proper timetables, several stations, decent lengths etc belong in Narrow Gauge. Hopefully this arrangement should prevent any future arguments over what-goes-where.

 

Exactly, you have just disproved you're own point! As this post refers to a 15" locomotive of no set origin and an 18" locomotive of possible Fairbourne origin it belongs in narrow gauge, not miniature, 18" being LARGER then 15", and thus within narrow gauge, and Fairbourne, as mentioned in the rules...

 

Err... what's a "pined" thread? Do these railways need pine trees?? \/

 

There's probably never going to be a satisfactory way to decide where miniature stops and narrow gauge starts, and this is nothing new. For instance, we'd surely all agree that Heywood-style stock is narrow gauge, but is it NG if working at Ravenglass but miniature if it's at Rhyl? Or the Groudle Glen was considered a miniature when it opened in the 1890s despite being 2' gauge. Even the old "do you get in the loco or on the loco?" test doesn't work any more (look at the Moors Valley, on 7.25").

The immediate concern is the forum subtitles on here, so to comment constructively, they now read:

Narrow gauge: "Think RH&DR and you'll be on the right track. 15" and up in here."

Miniature: "Anything 15" or smaller, Not quite ffestiniog or '0' gauge, the bit in between."

That's ambiguous or inconsistent, and the RH&DR ("main line in miniature") was maybe not the best example. I'd have said make a decision one way or the other as to which side 15" goes on (got no firm view on this and it's not worth getting upset about), and do something along these lines:

Narrow gauge: "Think L&BR and you'll be on the right track. Gauges wider than 15" but narrower than standard."

Miniature: "Passenger-carrying gauges up to and including 15".

Or... (heresy?)... just merge the two forums? Either approach ought to make life a little easier for users and mods alike.

 

Seeing as the miniature side is very rarely used merging them would make sense

 

I think merging them is by far the most sensible answer

Henry

 

merging them has happend before its not the way to do it

 

It is actually 'Billie' that is at Preston, having been used on the miniature railway at Margate. It is the only one of the six that didn't get to the Old Friends Gala at Rhyl last year.

As for the rest of the Rhyl Barnes Atlantic's 'Joan' 101, 'Railway Queen' 102, 'Michael' 105, and 'Billy' 106 are at Rhyl, with 'John' 103 at the Evesham Vale Light Railway. A history of the Rhyl Miniature Railway and its' locos can be found at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~stownsen/rhyl/rhylhstx.htm.

 

For those interested there is also a fairly detailed piece on the Barnes Atlantics (and how to tell them apart) in the Industrial Railway Society's North Wales Handbook edited by Vic Bradley.

See http://www.irsociety.co.uk

 

Thanks for your help, answers and input

Brendan