North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Somebody was listening to you. Footplate and driver experiences (inc Steam both ways) for the season are all listed now. Most understandably start from when Grosmont access is restored but they are all there. All are a bit steep for me on current budgets, but I understand your argument. At the end of the day if they can sell at that price it must be good for the railway. And in fairness, checking against a couple of others they don't look out of kilter for what's on offer.

https://www.nymr.co.uk/Pages/Category/footplate

 

The footplate ride offering is very popular and, in times past, has been booked up for months in advance. The offering has previously been for steam in both directions and the railway goes to lengths to ensure this happens, changing the timings when necessary. The majority of participants have had it bought as a gift, usually to celebrate a significant milestone event in their life. I generally ask the participant what the event is and quite often it happened many months ago and the date of the trip was the nearest they could get when it was booked. If I was organising one for a special event and wanted the date to coincide, I’d be looking to do so 12 months in advance.
The offering had previously been restricted to one footplate ride per day to keep it simple. I always enjoyed having these guests on the footplate although I know one or two drivers didn’t.

 

Most visitors on the MHR I enjoyed having along, but when it was every single trip of a day it had an effect on training, and a marked impact on enjoyment. I didn’t enjoy the visitor who passed out on the footplate and collapsed on to the floor narrowly avoiding smashing his head on the rocking grate mechanism and shunting the cleaner into thw backhead. That was not a pleasant day out.

 

The training impact is why we only allow one per day per loco, regardless of what the loco is doing. So if you are on a three-trip day, only one of them (normally the first) will have a footplate visitor. We also only allow them where our risk assessment says the cab can take 4 (so driver, fireman, 3rd man and visitor - the driver and fireman concentrating on their job, and the 3rd man looking after the visitor). You won't get a paid footplate ride on a Terrier or the Atlantic!

In most cases people are just glad to be there and don't necessarily know much about what is going on, but from time to time you get someone who clearly knows a bit more. I remember one trip on Sir Archie when we had a guest and firing wasn't going very well. I had this slight sense that he was more observant than normal. On the way back, when things are a bit more relaxed, I spent some time talking to him and it turned out he was a loco owner and loco crew himself over in New Zealand, and was very aware of exactly what the firing situation was! But he was very good natured and we could bond over Kiwi-isms (and the fact that Bulleid was also a Kiwi).

Tom

 

Technically true, but covering the 12:15 ex Pickering with a y rather than an X would make more sense to me and make it clearer to the general public

 

I suspect my friend got one of those drivers rather than you - he expected a little bit more than 'stand there and keep quiet' for his 300 quid. He was distinctly unimpressed with his footplate experience (and, after I introduced him to driver and footplate experiences, he has done quite a few of them) and has been quite vocal about it. He knew he was only there to ride and observe, but he did at least expect a bit of civil interaction with the crew. Guess they were having a bad day...but as people have already said, if you offer a luxury product, you need to deliver.

 

It is a safety critical place that has a window opened upon it like a zoo enclosure. Except the addition of a member of the public gets to hang out with the zoo animal for a not insignificant amount of money (and Im aware I'm stretching this metaphor). Tough one to balance for the crew.

 

Where possible, footplate passengers are matched with crews that are happy to take them. However, late alterations can affect this, especially where the diagram suddenly becomes a diesel turn and the passenger is swapped to another train to give him steam. One driver, in particular, really does not like footplate passengers and, if he has to take one, he will not talk to him other than to tell him to stand in a corner. This is known and every effort is made to not roster him with a footplate passenger to avoid this but it has happened when the choice is a ride on a steam loco or no ride and the passenger is swapped to another train.

 

It is I think incumbent upon the railway to ensure that the crews are happy about having riders. Limited numbers versus the number of trips for example. Otherwise the railway should expect that people who have worked hard and long to win their place on the footplate might not be as welcoming as you would want. It’s about balance.

 

I know it creates an extra staff requirement, but when I was involved in such matters elsewhere we tried to roster a footplate rider to accompany the paying passenger so that any questions or discussions could take place without distracting the rostered crew (obviously unless they took part in the discussions themselves!).

This also has the effect of making the paying passenger feel more welcome and as though the railway actually appreciated their outlay and presence.

 

That only works if there is no trainee/cleaner?

 

I'm slightly confused - I was going to say 'surely the thing to do is explain to the customer that they have the choice of either i) a silent ride (that may be acceptable to some), or ii) taking a pass and coming back again another day (of course, if the line makes that possible)' - but it sounds from the "it has happened when . . the passenger is swapped" that this driver was on occasion stuck with a passenger, when the loco the passenger was originally intended to go on was, at the last minute, not available?

Noel

 

As @21B says, this means that the trainee/cleaner can't ride on the loco for that trip if one is rotered and. on the NYMR, that's usually the case. I try and make the footplate passenger part of the team by inviting him/her to fill the back end before the start of the return leg and even have a go at putting the injector on. All whilst the loco is stationary and usually whilst the fireman is coupling up/gone to fetch some cuppas. It saves the fireman arms and doesn't create any problems as long as it's just the back end. It might mean a bit of sweeping up afterwards, though, especially with a rat trap door.

 

We would always have a third man for that purpose. I don’t think our rules would allow otherwise -.the driver and fireman are expected to fully concentrate on their jobs, so you need a third otherwise unoccupied, but footplate-competent, person to accompany the guest. Which doesn’t mean the driver and fireman have to remain silent, but when push comes to shove, their role is looking after the loco.

Tom

 

I do get that, particularly on a line as long as the Moors where missing out on one trip for a Cleaner is a much greater proportion of the duty than missing one trip on a five-mile branch line.

What we did sometimes do was the Cleaner be that person for the one trip (we only agreed to footplate passengers on one trip of the early turn, and one of the late turn as a maximum), and then they got extra time on the footplate in return. It's been a while since I've been involved in such matters though; it's quite nice just being the grumpy Driver in the corner!

 

I totally get this, and I’m not disagreeing but I want to amplify the bit about balance. I have been steam dept, in the dim and distant past - but the reverse of your comment is also true. These are businesses and *if* they have come down on the side of charging the public money to be on the footplate then I’m afraid as a basic minimum all footplate staff need to (to an extent) suck it up and be professional and courteous to the paying guest that the company has put there.

It really shouldn’t (even with volunteers, and I’ve done my time and may do again) be an option to even have anyone suspect they’re going to be a prat about it to the extent that people have to try and roster round them.

 

I think telling volunteers to “suck it up” is entirely inappropriate. There needs to be an explanation and clarity about why it is necessary, but telling people they simply have to just do it without giving them any voice is precisely the sort of thing that leads to disenfranchised volunteers.

 

How the message is delivered matters, but I agree with what @gwralatea says about setting very clear expectations about the role being fulfilled - even while being clear about trying to avoid rostering those who are uncomfortable about hosting where they will be uncomfortable.

 

I did say it was about balance. But, footplate staff will probably have to volunteer twice a month on average. It takes typically 10yrs to make it from cleaner to driver. Often more. I once worked out what accommodation and travel cost me each year. It was very significant. All this needs to be remembered, because you can easily provoke a “why do I bother” response.

 

Hardly. You’re assuming I meant some sort of diktat or fiat.

I was assuming an organisation, professional or amateur, comes up with and communicates what it is doing - ideally in the most collaborative way - and (especially in the volunteer world) then everyone rows in behind it. If someone doesn’t want to play with the trainset then there are other trainsets.

Which is not remotely to say that everyone has to be in 100% agreement, especially in a volunteer environment.

But what it *must* mean, given who is paying for the trainset, is that those in customer facing roles (which footplate experiences are so footplate crews then are) need to play the game.