Embsay and Bolton Abbey Railway Updates

We got to Embsay late yesterday afternoon. Beatrice and a Class 31 diesel were working trains. The rebuild 060 tender engine (Douglas? - last seen a few years ago at the Spa Valley) was in steam at Embsay.

 

I know - possibly one of the worst heritage railway websites! Rather than trying to attract passengers, they seem to be making it as difficult as possible.

 

That is completely unfair. The Ffestiniog Railway's site is much worse. At least Embsay make a slight nod towards telling you trains times....

 

I note that @burnham-t said "possibly". Having tried to establish information from the Embsay website, and then compared it to the Ffestiniog, my own reaction is that the Ffestiniog do betray signs of understanding that potential visitors want an idea of what to expect that is almost entirely absent from the Embsay website. Both have a fundamental issue to an enthusiast like me, which is their devotion to pre-booked "experience" trips; the Embsay website implementation of it is far worse.

 

You can download the full daily timetable from the Ffestiniog website - there is a link on the 'Train Services' page.

 

I visited Embsay for the first time yesterday, and am still digesting my experience. It’s a lovely short line, with excellent Dales scenery and a really good collection of vehicles that were in fine condition. Without exception, everyone I met was absolutely delightful and part of me feels that it really should be better known.

But. And it’s a big but, it has adopted a commercial model that is clearly focused on coach traffic. Arriving, we found a banner saying “check in here”, where our booking was checked, tickets handed out and advice given on which carriage we could use on the main set. As it happened, the 2nd (diesel) set with the superbly restored LNERCA bar car was in the station so we went with that and a satisfyingly musical 37294.

The standard one train service had one turn up and go carriage, with the rest being for pre booked dining experiences (Prosecco breakfasts seemed in heavy demand).

I heard mention of the coach company, and the contracts underpinning the operation. And when trying to find out what would be running, there is no published timetable - to work out what was running, I had to note down the train times from the booking form. We went to the station cafe at Embsay after a round trip and were tempted by the bacon sandwiches - only for the obviously very frustrated ladies to say that they’d not been supplied with the wherewithal so couldn’t do them.

The end result, with the trip also needing to include dropping off a large number of back issues of magazines with VCT at Ingrow West, was that my son and I didn’t bother hanging around for another trip, but drifted away.

I can’t comment on the economics, and a diesel running day with at least 2 galas and a high profile tour on was never going to be at peak demand. But the overall effect was underwhelming and, thinking of conversations on other threads, made me concerned at the way it felt as though all the eggs had been put in a single basket. That impression was reinforced by the sense of buzz at the Worth Valley, which was just doing turn up and go - though I acknowledge that the comparison between villages in the dales and the urban KWVR isn’t entirely fair.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you but I believe that, commercially, it is doing very well. That's hard to argue against.

 

Yes as an operation you have to go with what works for you, especially if that makes a decent return.
It would not now feature high on my list of must do's if I was up that way because of it, but I have always enjoyed previous visits.

 

I get the impression that this type of operation might be what the NYMR would like to move to, particularly for Grosmont-Pickering "internal" services, but if it is it's another indication that they haven't a clue! Getting rid of the teak carriages and not accepting any more shows that they have no idea of what contributes towards a more memorable "experience", for example, nor does any attempt to explain more about the surrounding scenery. The longer the journey, the more that matters, imho, when a lot of that scenery, although it does gradually change in nature, remains much the same for mile after mile.

 

Sadly the Embsay in is the unfortunate position is that as a small entity it has to cater for its best demand - and that is the coach parties which are more dependable than the "turn up and go" passenger. It is a sad fact that the enthusiast is NOT a source of reliable income hence the search for better commercial traffic until the line can generate sufficient impetus to become better known. The KWVR on the other hand is well bedded into the Worth Valley by basing itself as a local facility which provides the base for the "turn up and go" visitor plus it is one of the local "things to do" when visiting the area. Think carefully about the lines which are considered successful - their success is based on their involvement with their local community but lines like the Embsay don't have that local support as a commercial base hence its lack of success.

 

Entirely fair, but my point wasn’t just about enthusiasts - I suspect the number of paying visitors who were enthusiasts was barely in double figures.

 

My point was about the NYMR, which certainly does not rely on enthusiasts - it wouldn't last very long if it did! However despite much talk of adapting for change and "living museum" it's management seems completely unable to enact any such ideas. Perhaps they should be doing some touring of other heritage railways for ideas. Alternatively, what is Tracy Parkinson doing these days, she might have a bit more feel for the market about her?

 

I wrote about Embsay, though I was alive to possible parallels. I will just observe that an equivalent (scenery and distance) offering at NYMR would be Pickering - Levisham.

 

Unfortunately, I think that Tracy has had enough of heritage railways after the way she was treated at the ELR. Which is a pity.

 

As I’ve said before, for me what Embsay really needs is something to keep you there once you’ve done your out-and-back trip. There’s the cafes and the gift shops, sure, but I think they really need an exhibition/storage shed for rolling stock that’s out of use or not needed that day, as per Oxenhope, or some kind of exhibition space for art exhibitions or a display of railwayana/artefacts.
It’s all money though!

 

Good point about ancillary things to do, but would that sort of shed attract the average 'customer' (i.e. not a rail enthusiast - although I have no idea what the mix is), though? I'd think a museum ('history of the line') or such-like would be more their speed.

Noel

 

Fair question, and one they’d have to consider. Ideally you’d have both - the advantage of a shed is that the cost of the investment is justified by keeping more rolling stock undercover thereby hopefully saving money on future overhauls, but it would definitely be interesting to have a museum as you say!

 

I called in today as I was passing by and haven't visited for a while. I'd parked at Embsay and was quite suprised that the car park wasn't that busy compared to previous visits so should have been an early warning sign. I'd tried looking at the timetable last night and ticket prices, but could find no trace of an day adult ticket and the timetable was more a booking page for a return trip on specific services and not very user friendly. I'd decided to just turn up and buy a ticket and take my time travelling along the line and maybe walk up to Bolton Abbey which is something they used to promote.

I soon realised as I was stood in a queue within the shop to buy a ticket that I was probably not going to be travelled as I listened to the young woman in front of me speaking to the not exactly customer friendly volunteer and getting told they would probably after travel back on the return service they were booked on as all others were fully booked due to cream tea bookings. When I then asked for an adult ticket I was told they were fully booked due to cream teas and Sunday lunches. Its the only heritage line that I know of that still seems to operate like we are in lockdown with reserved seats and booking only. She didn't seem to care that I just walked out having spent nothing.

I will not be returning unless something changes there, but having read the previous comments on here the line is now run for coach bookings or experiences such as teas or meals. It's no longer an enthusiast friendly place or for anyone wanting to do as you used to be able to do and use Embsay as a park and ride for visiting Bolton Abbey. If this is what they want then thats there choice, but mine is so spend my money elsewhere. Other than a return trip on the line I fail to see what else would attract anyone to stay and spend time there as there are no sheds that you can visit, museums with history of the line, model railway or narrow gauge that you can ride on.

May be I'm just spoilt being a regular visitor to the GCR and had Friday at the KWVR for the gala, but very disappointed with what I found.

 

Much like my experiences, except that the staff were polite and friendly in their manner, but had nothing acceptable to offer us. From other posts they seem dominated by pre-booked coach trip and buffet car bookings so turn up on the day visitors are only accommodated if they can see there are seats on the train when the favoured groups are already in place. The Galas sound much better.

 

It wasn't that she wasn't polite, but had no concept of customer service or that someone might want something other than a straight return on a dining experience. They must be making enough from the coach trips that they don't have to worry about anyone turning up on the day expecting to be able to travel as you would at any other heritage centre. Think its one to avoid for now.