North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I'd be interested to know @Steve 's view on water consumption.

But a fag packet calculation - ages ago I calculated we used 63lb of coal per mile all told, and I suspect the NYMR uses a bit more (bigger locos, more sustained gradient). Let's say 70lb / mile at least, and each pound of coal evaporates 7lbs of water. That gives a consumption of 50 gallons per mile as near as makes no odds, or 1400 gallons for the round trip Pickering - Goathland. Maybe more in the steam heat season.

A Black 5 has a 4,500 gallon tender, but I suspect most loco crew would be getting a bit angsty when remaining capacity dropped below 500 gallons. That gives you a useable 4,000 gallons; you'd probably get two trips, but three would be a bit on the tight side.

In any case, skipping taking water when you can means that when you finally do, it takes that much longer to fill up. So even on a Black 5, I'd be electing to take water every trip.

Tom

 

Apparently Donald Trump has done much the same (https://uk.yahoo.com/news/trump-spells-basic-word-laughably-215130932.html - in his case the word is "PLEASE" rather than "PLEASED") and people are concluding that his post "Was this written by someone mentally incompetent”.

I know that I think the NYMR asylum is now being run by the lunatics within, is this another indication proving my theory????

 

While I can see many reasons to criticise the leadership of the NYMR, I feel such criticism should always stay on the right side of criticising the actions, not the people. I think this post rather crosses the line, and in doing so weakens rather than strengthens the point you wish to make.

Tom

 

I quite agree.

 

It appears to me that 60044 has some deep-seated grudge against the management of the NYMR with never a positive word to say. It is rather tiresome.

 

This "discussion" has become a constant rant from a handful of people who seem to have a grudge about the NYMR. It's a shame that another valuable thread has ended up as a soapbox for a few people, who will throw their negative spin on anything which anyone else has to say.

I'm not sure what they think this will achieve, but it puts off everyone else from posting any positive or useful information. They also like to criticise the railway for failing to join in the discussions themselves without realising their own contribution in why the railway made that decision.

 

W

Well, you asked so here goes. In normal times and with a 7 coach train I reckon on 2500 gallons for a round trip. As the height of climbers is pretty much the same in both directions that puts it at about 1250 gallons for each direction over the full length. Now Antwerp and Meteor would do the full line on 1200 gallons with 6 coaches and I have (once) done a return trip with 80135 with 5 coaches for 2000 gallons but there was little left. But that’s not what they are doing at the moment so my educated guess is going to be around 1200 gallons for the round trip.
When taking water at Pickering it doesn’t matter which end of the train the loco is on. If it’s the south end the loco simply uncouples and goes int pl.2. If it’s the north end it is pretty good braking to stop in the right place when it is the south end loco driver in charge so the chances are the loco will have to uncouple and move to the column. Taking water at Goathland is for emergencies only as it is not treated and, until recently has not been used due to leakage when turned on. However, that has now been repaired.
Oh, a Black 5 only has 4000 gallons, not 4500.

 

I’m going to disagree, I’m afraid. With the current method of working, in my opinion, the best place for the steam loco is going to be the north end. That way it does the work and is viewable by the public at Goathland. On the south end it is going to be out of sight unless you are on the road bridge. I don’t think it matters at Pickering as it is viewable from the platform whichever end it is and, if people want to look at it, they can do that easily.

 

Who on here has a grudge about the NYMR.? I certainly don’t I do have a strong concern about how the railway is being run and the direction it is going in, as do a significant number of others, including volunteers and paid staff.

 

Is the Pickering turntable back in use again? It certainly was awaiting repairs at the back end of last season and if it cannot be used then we are stuck with the locos facing as they are now. Current instructions are that the steam loco is to be on the north end of the train with the diesel (or is it deisel?) on the south end. And crews are encouraged to take water at Goathland where possible as it has been determined that the quality is better there than in Pickering.

Say what you like about the senior management of the railway but at the sharp end we are lucky to have a very switched on and well organised operations team. They do their best to deliver the best service with the resources available to them. I'm looking forward to the start of new season despite the challanges that it will bring

Peter

 

I must have missed the instruction to use Goathland water but I am very much on the fringe of things, these days. . It is on a par with that at Grosmont.
I agree that the operations team are good and well up to the job. They need to be under the present circumstances.

 

I wouldn't say people here do (or don't) have a grudge about the NYMR (well, there may be someone, somewhere, who does; someone who has been harmed by then). What I see, rather, is two spectrums. The first if how worried people are about the eventual outcome for the line, if it keeps going the direction it is going. The second is how connected they feel to the line.

People who simultaneously rate high on both may sound somewhat frantic about things (somewhat understandably). (I myself rate very high on the first, but mostly an onlooker on the second; so, I reckon I can usually manage to sound not too high on the 'have a grudge about the NYMR' scale. I actually feel somewhat sad for the people who are currently running the line; I imagine they may not be sleeping too well at night. Or maybe they blithely are - who knows? But that's not the impression I get, from various snippets that come out.)

Noel

 

The turntable was made operational again in October and was used to release one of the LNERCA carriages during the multitude of moves they were doing in the latter third of last year. If its gone awry again since then that would be bad luck, but not impossible.

Agreed. I personally have no beef with the operational team at the NYMR. I believe they are making the best of a bad hand dealt in most cases. My issue is how the railway is managed from the powers that be. Money seemingly used wastefully at times, numerous examples of own goals, the way Bridge 42 has been handled the most recent one. At the end of the day the guys and girls on the ground are doing their best with the resources they have, but following the direction given to them by management. Its the latter bit I have issues with.

I return to the countless times they have mucked about with pricing without ever thinking through consequences properly.
'We don't need them!' when referring to the Teak rake
Not putting an appeal out for Bridge 42 before it was shut despite knowing they were planning works originally during the most recent closed season.

Its all lastminute.com in a panic instead of being properly forecasted, planned and executed calmly.

There is no grudge here. Its more a worry about the future of the railway.

 

Out of curiosity - does your coal consumption calculation include all the coal used throughout the day including lighting up etc, rather than just the coal used when out on the road? I remember reading the Gresley A1s used 50lb coal per mile when introduced and the valve changes reduced that figure to 39lb per mile - I'm guessing the Bluebell isn't working their locos so hard that they use more coal than a Pacific hauling an express out of Kings Cross!

 

Yes to the first question - it is the total coal consumption (tons bought in a year divided by miles run - I think it was about 2017 when I did the calculation but I might be wrong). So that inflates the coal consumption, you aren't necessarily shovelling 63lb per mile "on the road". But I did say it was a fag packet calculation!

Heritage railways are inefficient though relative to the old mainline days, in two ways. Firstly, duty cycles have a lot of heating and cooling cycles, a lot of coal left on grates at the end of the day and so on. A railway that uses a loco for 6 remunerative hours one day a week can't help but be less thermally efficient than one that uses the same loco for 16 hours per day, 7 days per week.

The second reason, and one more germane to your comment, is the constant stop-starts and slow-seed slogging with long cut-offs inherent in heritage railway usage is very inefficient. An A4 doing 80mph on a flat track, pulled up tight and the superheat fully working will be far more efficient than the same loco going from a stand to 25mph up a 1 in 75 gradient for about 6 or 7 minutes before being shut off for another five minutes, and then opened up again. I haven't fired an A4, but I have fired an A1 and an A3 and I am pretty certain that despite I think firing quite efficiently, I was shovelling a lot more than 39lb / mile.

Tom