North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I wish there was more detail about how it was impossible (and also, if he'd done that kind of repair before - so we'd have some measure of his level of expertise in this kind of thing).

I mean, as I mentioned, the "Essential Maintenance Work" document says "Network Rail have developed a series of standard details designed to resolve these 3 common defects listed", and NR, I'd guess, has quite a few brick arched bridges they have to maintain. The damage on this bridge looks like it must be very similar to things that have happened on some of those bridges - having bricks drop out of the underside can't be something that's never happened before! (In fact, this document has an image of an almost identical brick loss.) The details of the repair procedure given in the "Essential Maintenance Work" document seem plausible to me (and although I'm not an experienced professional brick-worker, I have built things out of bricks, so I have a vague familiarity with this kind of thing). So how is this brick arched bridge different from all the other brick arched bridges that NR maintains (and which apparently are repairable)?

This is just a rumour being reported at Nth hand - so I'd want to hear more detail before I freaked out. I mean, it might be true - there could be something unusual about this bridge - but I'd want more detail. Maybe he just wants an excuse to bail (for any number of potential reasons). If he does indeed want to bail, NYMR needs to demand a detailed explanation why, and have that evaluated by someone with some expertise in this field - and then make that evaluation public. (Because 'A rumour can travel half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on' - basic version due to Jonathan Swift.)

Can I appeal again for the Network Rail standards for repair of brick arched bridges? A Web search produced Masonry arch bridges: condition appraisal and remedial treatment, but that copy is incomplete.

Noel

 

I think the unusual element is the propping. Is this a solution carried out elsewhere?

The speeds over the bridge are very low, but the frequency of use due to lack of a scissors crossover will intensify the stresses.

 

3 months if 5 days a week at that rate = £27000

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Not wishing to pile on the NYMR but...we visited today, having planned a trip with a group of us from Devon several months ago to cover the NRM, Keighley and NYMR. Obviously we were disappointed to hear it would be a truncated NYMR we visited but tickets were already booked.

Staying in York we planned to get the coast rider bus out to meet the 10:45 departure, only to double check the website the night before to discover it had been updated from a week or so ago to not running that service until the 15th. (Even the timetable given out when we arrived still had it starting today with staff pointing out the amendment.) So instead we aimed for the 12:00.
On arriving I asked in the gift shop for an Easter trail for my son, the staff member said he thought it finished last weekend (it was advertised outside as running till tomorrow) and was in fact still going after some further investigation.
Anyway our train arrived in good time with the black five on the front which we got on. The 4 coach train was packed, not helped by the front coach being reserved for a group which meant people sitting in the guards van. Just before 12 the black five was moved onto the diner, we then sat until 12:20 at which point another 37 appeared and coupled up so I asked a member of staff what was going on, to be told the other engine (presumably the Lambton tank) had failed and the B5 was needed for the diner. Therefore we had top and tailed 37s, eventually leaving 25 minutes late. Being an enthusiast I totally accept that engines fail but at no point did anyone tell those on the packed train why we were late or what was happening. When I told my friends and son that we had a diesel we had the unpleasant experience of watching the news filter down the carriage to a number of disappointed families. The staff member I spoke to said there might be steam on the final service, when we passed what appeared to be an entirely cold no29, we decided it wasnt worth hanging around to find out. Especially as without the 5 on the front there was no heating so the final round trip must have been pretty chilly. So sadly not the best day out. The last time I visited was I think in 2008 for the gala with three A4s and Green Arrow(!). I hope to visit again sooner but really hope the railway gets back on its feet as it certainly wasn't at it's finest today.

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It was obviously a disappointment to you but it would appear that 29 was a late failure as a revised loco diagram published at 08.03 today showed 29 on the diner. If both 37's were on the service train, I am wondering what top'n'tailed with the Black 5 on the diner. The present arangements with no easy access to the MPD make it difficult to provide last minute substitutions. I understand that 92134 is substitute for 29 tomorrow.
Edit: From photos I've seen, I'm guessing one of the 37's stopped at Gaothland and attached to the south end of the diner on arrival to take it back.

 

We left the lead 37 at Goathland presumably to help work the diner back. No issue with the loco failure, as I say I accept these things happen, totally understandable.To leave a packed train standing for 25 minutes without a single person updating the passengers is not great though. Especially when there were a large group of staff chatting on the platform for that period. The staff member I spoke to offered no apology in any case. Having visited the Keighley the day before I'd say there was a stark contrast in experience both as an enthusiast and as a father. The driver on the Keighley left his fireman waiting to change the points while he ensured every child that wanted to got to visit the footplate.

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Please note that due to a fault, the Autocar services will not run today.

It had previously missed some services at Weardale due to a fault, so not sure why they are pining their hopes on this again this season.

 

To be honest I thought it wasn't due to run until the 15th anyway. Or maybe they have just issued so many timetables nobody knows what's supposed to be running anymore...

 

That's a shame as it's a very interesting vehicle, though I do wonder if it is suitable for the NYMR. Geographically speaking it's very much in keeping but visitors to the line mostly come to enjoy steam and expect it to be provided. It also seems odd to be hiring in vehicles at a time of financial stringency when the railway has it's own motive power which is badly under utilised at the moment.

The sheer stupidity of the current management seems to extend in so many different directions at the moment. The only conclusion any outside observer could reach was either a complete lack of both foresight and common sense, or else an the ulterior motive to shorten and simplify the railway to make the line a candidate for asset strippers amongst the management.

The village meeting in Grosmont tonight is likely to be a stormy one. It is clear from local residents FB groups that the usual PR nonsense is likely to get a very hostile reception. It is one that the CEO and her few remaining supporters thoroughly deserve.

 

From my time with the construction industry this level of project requires a multi-discipline input. Structural engineers would be engaged to determine the extent of the works required and to provide an engineering solution that may , as in this case, require temporary works such as the provision of supplementary support ie "propping". There are a number of proprietary propping systems available for hire and installation by an appropriately qualified workforce. The project manager controls the whole project and may not have much in the way of relevant engineering qualifications. Their expertise is in getting a project from start to finish and meeting the host of technical, safety, environmental and financial standards as well as keeping the client and the consultants from hand to hand combat. Also communication with those affected by the project is essential.
Mainly because of the heavy penalties that are exerted if things go wrong it is very much in the interests of those involved to cross the tees and dot the i's. It is just possible that this saga may become a case study for "how not to run a project"!
Brick / masonry arches are fairly long lived and complete collapse is rare but they are susceptible to failures in other ways that usually stem from ground movement, water penetration, vegetation growth, undermining of abutments etc. Decomposition of the building material is a possibility and although the photographs don't show any obvious signs of distress the work list tells different story but again is no more that would be expected for an arch of this age. It's not clear whether the £800,000 is for the temporary works or the whole project. Perhaps the project manager has just found out there's a funding problem.

 

If only the railway could call on the services of an experienced project manager...

https://pjsash.com/

 

Its a little while ago now but the figures given out were approx £250k required for the 'propping' phase, with £550k for the main repairs. Though those were estimates issued back at the start of March.