North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Having not been for years, I thought I’d venture (with some trepidation, given the general tone of this thread!) to the NYMR today.

First, a very big caveat - I am as happy with a Black Five at the head of the train as I am with a 37, but I completely accept a diesel being rostered would’ve been a big turn off to many, enthusiast or not.

I arrived in time to have a wander round Pickering - the gift shop is very skewed towards the child visitor, but both it at the tearoom were well presented. Buying a ticket was simple - the friendly clerk explaining the revised timetable, as well as explaining the situation with Bridge 42 and encouraging donations with the aid of an envelope also issued.

I popped down to Levisham on the Autotrain first. I actually rode in the trailer, and the pair are a delight - something very unique and certainly eye catching.

I then travelled Levisham - Pickering - Goathland- Pickering with the 37s, which were certainly entertaining when given the opportunity. The short Mk1 set was well presented, and ticket checks and rubbish cleaning were carried out regularly.

I should also highlight the staff - everyone I interacted with was cheerful and helpful, and a credit to the railway. There was certainly no outward display of discontent that I noted whilst there.

However, the elephant in the room was that it was very, very quiet. It was an absolutely glorious day, but the main set was never more than about a third full from my estimation, and the warnings about limited capacity on the Autotrain were nowhere near ever becoming an issue. I guess the lack of steam may have deterred some people, but I didn’t see hoards of dejected people walking away from the ticket office; they just didn’t seem to be there in the first place.

So in summary - it is still a glorious line, with great staff and I had an enjoyable day. As a punter with no “skin in the game”, I came away happy. But it must be a worry that numbers travelling were so low at the time the railway needs revenue most.

Andy M

 

……. no steam no go as far as I’m concerned. I guess I’m far from alone?

 

Indeed, I absolutely believe that to be case, but that's why I was surprised to not see at least some disappointed people at Pickering. I'd imagine the average punter isn't going to check the loco roster and would only find out about the diesel service when they arrive, and even for the enthusiast, I think it's only published the morning of the service? That's why I wondered if it was quiet irrespective of what was operating the service, rather than because of it.

Andy M

 

On the note of the Thomas services - I'm absolutely not shocked at the low bookings given the points around price I made a few pages back.

 

The propping works proper have commenced with the pads going in ….

 

I'm not sure that the construction on the river edge there (most clearly visible at 2:52) is the bottom of a temporary pier; two on each side, in the drawings shown previously (visible here), although it's in roughly the right place.

I wonder what ever happened to the foreman who said it 'couldn't be done'? In retrospect, I'm surprised that a major contractor is not using someone who was already 'on staff' in that role.

PS: I've just noticed something in those two drawings (one from each horizontal direction): both show a major horizontal beam, just above the temporary piers! Where those beams meet (just over the top of the pier) the beams in the 'cross-river' direction go over those in the 'along-river' - I was momentarily worried about that!

Noel

 

Copying this over from the Embsay thread as this is fundamentally an NYMR conversation which is unfair to Embsay

I agree with the conclusions but not the analysis. Businesses also have souls, and those that lose sight of them suffer. Whether it's ultra high profile (e.g. Ratners and decanters), or just losing sight of how they engage with their real customers (Nike in recent years), it happens and they suffer for it.

In business terms, the question for a heritage railway is who their customers are, and especially who their biggest customers are. I'd suggest that @Jamessquared has had it right in the many posts where he has pointed out that donations are a form of custom, and the larger donors are major customers. Donations, by the way, are not just of money but also of time - there's a reason why many grant bodies put a monetary value on volunteer time. That means that part of the "product" needs to be designed to appeal to them - not just the ticket buyers who are the obvious major set of customers.

At NYMR, we're seeing this work out in a Nike kind of way. The "product" is being shifted to a simple, productivity box driven approach, and breaking links with the features that have previously attracted their major customers. Just as Nike changed its marketing strategy to focus on direct sales, without understanding how the relationship through retailers and the direct connection to sports drove much of their business. Nike realised what was happening and reverted; one has to wonder whether NYMR will do so in time.

The same analysis, incidentally, is also true in a church context. A major part of the challenge of keeping a church in the black is in persuading worshippers to pay (in time, in money) what churchgoing is worth to them. Not in the crude way I've just outlined, but bringing together words and deeds. I suspect churches are like railways in another way, in that there's a very high level of reliance on relatively few people and if one of them leaves, the gap can be difficult to fill.

I'm involved in implementation of findings following a governance review at a charity I'm involved in. We're doing ok, but the review was commissioned to check in on how we were really doing - and found some things that have made us go "ok - we could be doing this better". One of the key features of the findings, in line with both company and charity law, and CC guidance, is the need for independent voices to be properly part of the picture, not just for decoration. That's about who our elected trustees are, which roles should be appointed, which co-opted and what term limits there should be (the Charity Commission recommends 10 years max...) Over the weekend, I saw something about the mess at Bangor Cathedral. Very tight control from the centre came with very limited effective accountability. When it blew up - as it inevitably did - it forced the resignation (effectively retirement) of the bishop and destroyed the career of the individual who the bishop had appointed as both Sub-Dean* and Diocesan Secretary**. More importantly, it's led to enforced job losses and severely damaged the reputation of the cathedral and diocese across a wide area***.

I think we're seeing something like this process at work at NYMR.

* - The Dean is the priest who is in charge of the cathedral, the sub-dean is their number 2. Usually a senior, very experienced, priest and not someone who's recently been ordained - as the Sub-Dean was, with no Dean to report to or guide him
** - Effectively the Chief Exec of a diocese though, like many things church related, it ain't that simple.
*** - Google "Canticle of Indignation" for the choir's response to the situation last year.

 

I've checked out the Thomas page to see the price of tickets.

Does anyone think paying more for a child than for an adult is unusual?

 

Mildly, but not unique - I've occasionally seen events charged more for the child where the adult is effectively just there to look after the child.

 

Same principle as NYMR remuneration. Pay those incapable of taking sensible decisions the higher salaries whilst those who know what they are doing are significantly lower down the scale.

 

Thomas and a Bridge Too Far, by the Very Reverend Pullman Audrey

Once upon a time, only a few weeks from now. Thomas and friends were set to go on holiday in the far North of Ridingshire, where men are men and women tell them what to do.

"What will we be doing there said Thomas? "well" said the Fat Controller "You will be going backwards and forward to the outpost known as New Mills Level crossing, a whole 200 yards from the magical gates of Park Street Palace." "Are the natives friendly engines?" "Oh Yes" said the Fat Controller "Terence and Tony Tractor do most of the work and Bertie the Bustitute will be buzzing around because the line to Goathland has been closed as being economically unviable. Lots of other engines are taking the year off for tax reasons but you might see Daisy, though she's been stored unserviceable for around 15 years now." "What about shed accomodation for the overnight" "all arranged" came the reply,"although you'll have to pay the £1.50 booking fee"

"And Duck?" said Thomas. "only if their line controller starts throwing things again" said Edward.
"Is that the lady who hangs a red blanket outside her office window when she's angry?" said Thomas. "Yes says Gordon, "but be careful she doesn't take away your brake van if she gets really cross" "Toad?" asks Thomas. "Yes" said Edward "but it it isn't very nice to say so. I heard she once walled up 17 volunteers in Grosmont foot tunnel because they wanted a wet weather allowance.I think they're still in there hiding"

"Is there anything else I should take with me?" said Thomas. "Well let me see said the Fat Controller". "How about a breakdown train, a film crew for Piglet, a bridge repair kit and don't forget tickets for The Moorsider Circus Gala Awards Dinner Special. It will be the only steam in town all week."

And please remember the most important detail of all. Annie and Clarabel only have limited seating.

 

ELR Thomas this weekend for a full day of action. Adults £26-45p, Child £15-95p

 

Agreed. One of the events the small person went to was free adult with every child.