North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

I agree.That's why Goathland is a better bet, although even then for the price sensitive you can't possibly compete with the 840. But then again there are buses from Minehead to Watchet every half hour and some people choose train.

What you have got in Whitby is quite a lot of people looking for something to do on their holiday. Make sure a day out on the NYMR is on the list, in people's minds as a possibility.

 

The 1235 from Whitby stands at Grosmont for 30 minutes. It leaves at 1330, that's 55 minutes after it left Whitby, 6 miles away.

 

Appreciate rising food costs, but £17.50 makes for a very expensive treat bag which you still need to pick up from the cafe.

The orange juice resembles the stuff you get from a travelodge vending machine too. Would love to know how many of these are sold!

 

The last time I did this was during a 3 day break nr Teesside with an old mate from our days at the Poly there.
We got Gt Ayton - Whitby returns, jump off at Grosmont, did a round walk to Goathland and back, just in time for a train onwards to Whitby. Night out around the town, back on the last M/boro bound train.

There were no suitable services on the NYMR that we could utilise.

In fairness, another of my favourite lines, the WHR, has gone down a similar route and there aren’t many hop on, hop off options there now either. We’ve had to use buses on recent visits.

 

"Ba-da-bing", as they say.

Perhaps more importantly, at that point, will anyone/anything be able to save the line?

You're very probably correct - but what can someone who i) cares deeply about the line, and ii) thinks it is headed for the buffer stop, if things keep going the way they are, do, to avoid that potential outcome?

I cheerfully admit I don't have much knowledge of the line, other than what I read here, but that prognosis is shared by quite a few people who do have a deeper knowledge, including that legator (not many people plan to leave a six-figure legacy to something unless they are deeply knowledgeable about it).

Noel

 

[deleted]

 

Even disregarding the lack of a suitable NYMR service how many folks who do not have an interest in railways would even understand that a BOJ was allowed on your ticket to allow them to do that?

 

From £2.50 with a railcard and advance purchase on Northern !

 

Well I wasn’t sure, so I checked with the guard before we bailed out.

 

The only loco that straddles the gala is 60007 SNG

 

I wonder if more could be done to encourage journey breaks and station exploration at heritage railways. It's sad how many people I see walk straight out the door the second the first train has got back in from a return trip (this experience is not at the nymr, but I suspect it is probably widespread). Maybe people just don't realise that day rover tickets are valid all day, and that there is so much to see and do at intermediate stations. I reckon this is why the 'experience' buisness model proves effective and makes money, because many people just do the one trip anyway.

In my experience, lots of people request help interpreting the timetable, and understanding that there are two sets going back and forth, and then working out which stations to do in which order and how long they'll have there etc. Could there be an easier way to market or publicise the ability to break journeys to get off and have an explore? When talking to passengers I always do my best to encourage them to spend time at other stations.

 

The typical non enthusiast family is going to drive to Goathland in their car that they have arrived on holiday in and visit another attraction which is not served by public transport.
According to the ORR Whitby Station achieved 150,000 entries and exits last year. The 840 bus only serves Whitby (and Goathland) 4 times a day according to bustimes. org The whole non enthusiast market arriving by Public Transport must be tiny.

 

You're assuming that they will visit Goathland anyway, and the train is chosen as the mode of transport. My experience of staying in the area when the children were younger was that the trip and the destination were part of a package, with both destination and railway benefitting from the trip

 

Look back earlier (probably a lot earlier!) in this thread! I have put forward exactly the same point and suggested ways to try to revive the concept of the railway and its surroundings as a destination in its own right, rather than as being a park and ride for Whitby. It means going back to marketing the NYMR as a heritage railway! The surrounding countryside is rich in possibilities for that. I do mot wish the railway to fail, despite what some may think! I want it to succeed and be appreciated for what it is - and to become an ever-better heritage railway. However - and it is a very big "however" - I do not think that the current management has it within them to deliver that for they simply do not understand the concept of running a heritage railway. There is a growing groundswell of disappointment and, regrettably, I believe there may be an uncomfortable period of reckoning to follow for some of them.

 

BOJ?

Tom

 

Break of journey. In context, a reasonable point that many people don't understand the leeway that exists within ticketing rules to break a journey.

 

The railway is by definition going to be very expensive to operate, due to its length and the extra costs of using NR metals. Let alone what many of you report as a backlog of infrastructure work.
I know from your numerous posts you feel the railway could survive just in its old guise as a heritage line, but in 2026 where are all those people who want to
1) Just have a lengthy train ride
2) Visit Goathland
3) Visit Grosmont
going to come from on a day to day basis (or at least 5 days a week).
Yes there will be folks who will want to visit those places, and some will want to walk down the hill from Goathland to Grosmont, but whichever GM or CEO or whatever there title is, when you read an interview will say you cannot pay for the railway on fare box alone. Forget the galas and the quasi enthusiast events such as SNG or the Castle where are these people going to come from to generate the money the railway needs if it does not go to Whitby.

And what is your concept of running a heritage railway?, as at least two of the lines who have the greatest array of heritage stock, Bluebell and Embsay operate in a way that I would suggest is far from a traditional model. One apparently has a focus on coach tours, and the other probably has more "non railway events" then any other line.

 

Out of interest, which line is which here? Is Embassy the coach tours and Bluebell the events? A minute ago I typed a massive long post (which I deleted due to lack of relevance) talking about the family events at the Bluebell and how I think they are a massive boost to the railway and a driver of visitors. Model Railway Weekend we've just had has been really busy.

I think you have to utilise the railway in an effective way (I know that sounds really waffley.) E.g. Santa Specials - go on the train to meet Santa. Even better, go on the train to see the unicorns at a station with no car parking (Kingscote). The events ar what make people show up and spend money.

Whitby is a massive USP for the NYMR, but as identified, maybe it's slightly too much of a hyperfixation? I wonder, is the concept of going to Whitby somewhat of a 'luxury' / holiday-type product? Does this reduce the appeal of the line for local families who want something low cost and low key to do with the kids?

 

Here’s a radical thought ….. instead of ‘why Whitby?’ how about ‘why Pickering?’
Ignoring the obvious problems of stock storage (is that possible?) you end up with very manageable heritage operation with a very attractive seaside destination added on.

You lose a very long (albeit scenic) line to Pickering which has no real destinations along the way, along with the huge maintenance headache, and you can run a more frequent service. Although Whitby is constrained by the Northern timetable, with only a five mile heritage line you could look to dovetail with these. Possibilities of cross-ticketing etc.

This would give you the best bits at either end, plus Grosmont Shed etc in the middle

 

I think my first point would be that you have chosen two particular railways as exemplification of your point, but are they truly representative examples? The GCR, SVR or ELR could have been equally chosen as lines that are far more dependent on railway enthusiasts, even the Ribble Steam Railway - each of them has identified a path or business model that works for them. In some cases it is the enthusiasts subsidising them - but of course those that do tend to be less dismissive towards those supporters than the NYMR's management seem to be, and they do perhaps offer more by way of events for them.

Perhaps ironically, in view of my preceding comment, the most successful events the NYMR operates are aimed largely at enthusiasts and involve fairly minimal workings into Whitby, and it would do no harm to focus more on those - the diesel event probably needs better planning and organisation to get a consistently good standard, from what I have read about regarding this year's event, for example - but I suggest that there needs to be consideration given to more "crossover" variety to bring in non-enthusiasts to such events. The NYMR has never yet tried a "moving the freight" type of event, but such an event could be themed on one servicing local mines and farming.

Grosmont and Goathland could be far better promoted as interesting destinations, and there is the Rail Trail connecting them. Are you trying to tell me that no-one gets the train from Swanage to visit Corfe Castle? The whole railway, more or less, runs through a SSSI, and there is scope for improved access to that via guided tours. Years ago there were horse-drawn cart rides from Levisham on the forest roads - perhaps they could be revived and worked into the offering for nature tours. It's a question of exploiting what lies around the railway - and marketing it to visitors. The North Yorkshire National Park is an attraction in its own right, and Whitby is not even within it!