North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Having had experience with oil-fired locos, this is new to me. I would be interested in seeing any documentation or evidence that copper boxes suffer in this way. How do they wear?

 

I'd be interested to hear about you experience in maintaining oil-fired locos that are fitted with copper boxes. How long did those boilers last before fire-box renewal was necessary, given that replacing copper boxes is far more expensive than replacing steel boxes.

Peter

 

Do we know what the deal is between the railway and the loco owners. My impression is that the loco was offered to the railway because it needed the work rather than because the railway needed it as an attraction. I suspect that if there are any climate related losses these will be shared between the two parties.

Peter

 

Just to throw in - 29 is out on Driver Experience today. So still no steam ban, just nothing available.

 

None at all, all steel! Hence why I asked the question.

 

I know that some people say I'm always carping on about the NYMR management but, to me, using 29 on footex duties seems to be risking p****ing off trainloads of paying customers to pander to a few. Would it not have been better to use 29 top and tailed with a diesel on service trains, lightly worked with the diesel providing most of the grunt, to keep the fire risk low? It doesn't represent my idea of commercial nous.

 

For an 'ordinary business', cutting most expenses is part of the standard recipe for dealing with a loss-making situation (along with looking for ways to increase income; e.g. by new products, etc). Going into broken-record mode, a heritage line is not an ordinary business, though, as almost all the successful ones seem to realize.

I quite agree that the NYMR's problems date back to before the current regime.

Noel

 

But it would seem it is taking the risk by using it on Footex workings! In the past diesels have been used to pilot steam locos from Goathland to Levisham through the area of highest fire risk, and I don't recall there being any issues then.

 

Since when did Footplate Experience operations become known as Footex? Historically Footex was a term for football excursions in the wider railway world.

Peter

 

Well, you understood what I intended! I have seen the term "Footex" used in the footplate experience context elsewhere, and I've personally got zero interest
in the game of loutish tribalism I thought it was OK to us here!

 

Before reading further down the thread I was trying to work out why Whitby Pickering fixture would even fill its own train!

 

Many (maybe 20-25) years ago, the GCR had a motive power crisis and ended up running a summer season with just 63601 and some diesels in traffic, and I recall asking a similar question, as 63601 seemed to work only dining trains and DALEX (Drive A Loco EXperience) (as we called them then), while the 'ordinary punters' got stuck with whatever diesel was available. I think the response was along the lines of 'the DALEX customers have paid a lot of money, and sometimes they booked a long time ahead for a significant anniversary or birthday or whatever, and wouldn't necessarily re-book, and we need that income'. To extend the original excuse, some of those people may well have flights booked from abroad, or whatever, which makes switching the date difficult, but that can't be true of every booked group, and personally I thought it was a lousy excuse; you would only need to phone at most half a dozen people and at least see if they could switch to a different date. Anyway, that is what they did, so the NYMR is certainly not alone in prioritising the 'high-value' customers over 'everyone else'. But I do agree it may p*** off some 'normal' passengers.

Reading back up the thread over the last couple of weeks, has 29 been available but unusued (despite apparent steam loco shortage), or has it been under repair?

 

I agree it is a difficult call, but most times a business will prioritise what it sees as premium customers.
Airlines do it all the time with upgrade status or responses during disruption, e.g. an economy pax is unlikely to end up with a room at the Savoy.
Supermarkets have cheaper prices for "club members"
Even our national network I understand will refund First Class pax who have to stand, whereas standard class get nothing.

For Heritage Lines I guess it comes down to how many you may be disadvantaging (or actually see themselves as disadvantaged).

Looking at the Tornado D/Ex at my local line, and forgetting what the hire cost is of the loco, they would need to sell around 290 returns or 200 rovers each of the four days just to get the same revenue. Which option provides most profit no idea. It is of course easier to change dates if the D/Ex loco is based on your own line, but personally the points the GCR listed I think are mainly valid.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U89688/2026-07-25/detailed?

Times for 60163's move on Saturday to NYMR. Vintage Trains operation, and no sign of any diesel involvement at present.

 

It's a bit more complicated than that perhaps. 200+disappointed passengers are more likely to spread word of their disappointment by social media than the 6 more privileged ones. I don't know how often the D/Ex runs take place either on a day by day basis, or even how many per day, but that is a lot of potential for adverse criticism. "Rubbing salt in the wounds" is a phrase that comes to mind.

 

I haven’t seen anyone expecting steam traction in Firecon conditions? The discussion is about the NYMRs paucity of steam under normal conditions, and their inability to make customers aware of this before travelling or booking.

 

A footplate experience makes £3,400 in gross revenue. If you'd taken the loco off that duty in order to double head a service train, you'd have foregone £3,400 in revenue while not cutting your daily operating cost by even one penny. Now imagine the outcry here if the decision had been pitched as "the NYMR chose to forego £3,400 in its current cash-strapped state, just to add a show pony to a train that already had adequate haulage". At the very least, you'd have to hope that making that decision drove an additional 70 passengers paying full fare, just to offset the loss of revenue from cancelling the footplate experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly in the camp that says that steam is the big draw, and a railway that gets a reputation for excessive diesel substitution is on a sticky wicket. But the flip side is that the railway also desperately needs revenue now, and has a dearth of available steam motive power; it is easy to understand in that situation why it chooses "fare income + £3,400" rather than "fare income" given the cost to deliver either revenue outcome is identical.

Tom

 

You yourself liked the post by @MikeParkin65 whose family '..got fed up with the prospect of ‘a dirty blue diesel’ being more likely to be at the head of their train than a steam engine.'
If now isn't high fire risk when would be?

My post stated that NYMR should call it as such so people WEREN'T expecting a steam loco as it seems illogical to be arguing about a steam shortage when it probably shouldn't be running anyway!

 

I see that Repton has been doing test runs between Grosmont and Goatland today.