Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

On Friday, L&BRT submitted its planning application for the extension to Parracombe:
https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/news/view/planning-application-submitted-for-a-return-to-parracombe

The documents should be available online shortly, from the ENPA Planning portal

 

When I created the first 762 Club website in 2010 or thereabouts (hand-coded in native HTML - a true labour of love - and good to see much of my content is still in use!), I remember they were very keen not to use the word "Shares" IIRC, I think people bought "Memberships" for £762, since reduced to £750 once LYN was completed and the M-Ws were started. There were also many donations, through sponsoring individual items. (I bought some of the wooden lever handles in the cab among a few other parts!) As well as managing the first two, I believe there are already some parts in store for 3 & 4! Manning Wardle & Co. is currently listed as a dormant company (since 2019), with Jon Pain and Charles Summers as current Directors. The historic company was 'Manning, Wardle & Co. Ltd.' - the comma is probably quite significant! As I understand it, the new company doesn't have rights to the former company's designs or intellectual property, as Hunslet now owns these.

 

Sorry Martyn, but in the original coloured prospectus which I have in front of me, it states clearly that you would be buying shares of £761 Pounds plus a cheque for a £1 pound share payable to the 762 Club Ltd.

It also goes on to state that by signing the above form you are giving permission to the L&BRT to gather the gift aid on your money.

And I never got any response after I sent my money in, saying that they needed to change the above because the Charity Commission told them they couldn't do what they wanted to do in the first place.

Part of me is happy to see LYN at Woody Bay, but another part of me would like to see the 762Club to be more accountable and open to the former shareholders and anyone else who has supported this project in the past.

Again, having an open AGM that is accessible at a convenient time and place for most of the shareholders/stakeholders/donars to attend might clear up a lot of this mess one way or another

 

And in that story we have some of the difficulty - especially whether the funds provided are shares, or donations, and in what proportions.

 

Colin
There was some initial confusion but
that all got sorted out many, many years ago!
LYN has been running at Woody Bay for almost 9 years.
Mike

 

Sorry Colin, but just because that is what the prospectus says doesn't mean that it was legally, financially, or commercially correct!

 

Mike, it may well have been, but more than a couple of people who put a lot of money into the project were thinking they were buying shares; then, afterwards, being told that it was just a donation is not the way to go about it.

All I will say is that there are still a lot of very upset people out there, and with the removal of the AGM from the M&A, you don't have any way of discussing the issues with the Director/Trustees, and it also being on record.

Yes, an AGM might be explosive, but that is what you will get when something like this has been bottled up for years.

 

Well, as I see it, a prospectus is the following, and the document I have in front of me states all of the following.

• A prospectus is a document companies use to give the public relevant information about an offering of securities.

• The information in a prospectus includes the company's profile, the securities offered, investment objectives, the use of capital, and risk factors.

• Investors can use the prospectus to help them make important investment decisions.

• Companies must file prospectuses with the SEC and use them as marketing and sales tools.

Item 1 is the most important factor here. The fact that the 762club was offering shares in the first place needs to be understood, and that will affect how you might give your money to a project like the L&BR.

Also, within the document, the term shares has been repeated many times. I do know that a number of those 'shareholders' never received a letter stating that they wanted to make any changes to the governing body or that the Charity Commission had told them they couldn't get a different charity to accept the gift aid.

I don't want anyone's head on a silver platter, but I do expect trustees to be open and honest if they make a mistake, or if they don't know, then to ask someone who might know how to get around the issue in hand.

In hindsight, it would have been better to have cancelled the whole project as it was first set out and then return the money to all the subscribers. Then, after, say, six months, launch the new body as the Charity and also make it clear that the money would be treated as a donation and not as shares. The big trouble with that plan was that there was an excitment with in the group at the time about building LYN, and to a certain point it just took off from there and would have done a lot of damage to the project if there had been a delay.

One final thing which I still find incredible is the number of people who still think LYN and the 762Club are part of the L&BR Trust. They are not and never have been since it was set up; the Charity Commission made sure of that in the early days when they said the 762 Club could not use the L&BR Trust to hold any of the 762Club gift aid donations.

 

All of these may be true, and yet if the prospectus is flawed, then none may be true. Various consequences may follow from that, which is why any sensible prospectus would be carefully designed to ensure that all statements were factual, and they might well insist that it's unavailable to anyone in the USA* (as the Bluebell did with their extension prospectus). It is also only true at the point of issue, so may change later, and that of course raises its own set of issues. Some of them have very nasty words attached to them, which can lead to stays at one of His Majesty's network of secure hotels.

If we're digging up events of 15 or more years back, care is required - and I write that in full awareness that there are many (like yourself) convinced that there is something deeply wrong with how the 762 Club has been managed over some considerable time. If you are challenging the validity of how, to quote @mgp, "that all got sorted", then hard facts are required. Whether a discussion forum is the right place for those is an entirely separate question

* - the SEC is the American stock market regulator, whose reach into the UK is only due to extra-territorial American legislation.

 

You tell me what they are or perhaps @lynbarn can shed some light on the current situation, from what I recall when funds were being raised for Lyn you could donate, sponsor certain parts or become a member for £762 so there were members at that point

 

Professionals have been struck off for lesser misdeeds than those of the L&B in its various forms and committees.
Men have gone to prison for promising, taking money, then failing to deliver.

Repeatedly breaking the various laws of property, finance, charity- I can't work out if it is ignorance, arrogance or incompetence. Clearly a lot of us were willing to turn a blind eye to these failings whilst it appeared that progress was being made, but there seems to have been almost no progress at all in the 8 years since Lyn was delivered.

 

I would suggest that anyone interested needs to go back and read the comments in Post 16410 and also note the change in the M&A's in the Companies House records. Item 10 called for a General Meeting and was later modified to say that the charity no longer needs to hold an AGM.

Members: Could in theory call an AGM, but they would need to hold over 90% of the voting rights, which would be impossible considering that there are now, in effect, five projects.

As I said above, I am not after anyone's head, but I do expect to see some openness and honesty, and of course there is that long-term elephant in the room which will need to be addressed at some point soon.

The changing face at the L&BRT and the trustees of the 762Club will mean there is a need to ensure that all the legal niceties have been taken care of between the two Trusts, such as contracts between the two charities as to who should pay for what and when it is needed.

I refer to the long-term operational use of the five 762 Club locos, their maintenance and the cost of the overhauls; some have suggested that the L&BR should merge with the 762 Club to ensure they stay in North Devon. But why should one charity do that when it needs all its own money to maintain and possibly extend the railway itself?

I can see the time when the 762 Club will need to set up an expendable endowment fund to make sure they have enough money in the bank to pay for all the above. It will then be necessary for the members to be able to play a role in the long-term ownership and care of these locomotives.

 

I have bought shares in several projects, they are just papers in a drawer. There is no market for them, I consider them just donations. Lyn is up and running, so sending the money to the project worked, and the result is there for all to see.
Move on.

 

Colin, surely the maintenance and overhaul costs are the responsability of the 762 club, isnt that what the steaming fees are supposed to cover, surely it doesnt matter if LYN had been based at the L&BR or had been spending time at various railways over the last 9 years, those railways would have been paying the fees which would ultimately go in to the pot for general maintenance and her 10 year overhaul, but then again i suppose the detail is in the contract

 

Will there be a stop at cricket farm lane or will u need to walk now

 

Yes, I agree that steaming fees should cover the cost of the next overhaul and more, if possible. I am sure that the guys who lease mainline steam to the network charge a fee that would help cover such things. I have heard it so many times that it can be expensive to run a mainline steam locomotive; I would be certain that while it is great to own a mainline steam loco, the last thing you need is to keep putting your hand into your pocket to pay for something to be repaired; the whole point of such fees has to be at least help break even with the maintenance costs.

I would think that maybe it is time for the L&BR project to look towards taking on more of a business feel about itself, as we shouldn't always rely on having the volunteer funders to back up this project, and that is why I feel we need to see more open and honest management. If there is nothing to hide, then there should be nothing to worry about.

Talking of steaming fees, I think this will need to be a question for the next L&BRT AGM: how come the begging bowl had to come out for AXE's overhaul? Does the Trust not have a steaming fee contract for AXE with the CIC? If the answer is no, then I would suggest that such a contract needs to be worked out and put in place asap once AXE is back in service.

 

There are a number of misconceptions here:
1. That steaming fees cover overhaul costs - it is very clear that they do not, and never have; mainline or preserved.
2. That voluntary donations are inappropriate to cover overhauls - they are absolutely part of the economy
3. That the relationship between parent (L&BRT) and child (CIC) organisations should be fully arms length
4. That the place for questions is the AGM, rather than engaging with trustees and management through the year

 

I have not yet seen the application plans - has anyone? - but I doubt it wery much. CFL was very much a 'stop gap' alternative if unable to get to PE itself - if we do manage that, then what purpose would be served by a Halt at CFL?
There is also the 'small matter' of whether or not the ORR would approve a stop on that gradient.

 

The planning application will be logged https://exmoor.planning-register.co.uk/Planning/WeeklyList as soon as ENPA have published it - there are two entries on this week's list so far - they seem to update it throughout the day.